by AGuest 197 Replies latest jw friends
So, when my Lord showed me that in order to be "great" with HIM... I needed to be "least" in relation to all others... I understood that. And I learned that, even if others DON'T get it... I get it: it's not a form of mock humility - it is humility - which I learned from a very early age.
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What better way to display humility than to tell someone that you are humble?,.... learn something new everyday.
it is the people who treat science as an infallable religion. So much so that they will 'Ha Ha' all people of faith and/or religion with their 'facts'.
Yes, dear tec (the greatest of love and peace to you!)... this is what causes me such confusion: the hypocrisy. As you know, I put more credence in science than in religion - of course, I do. It is not science that I have an issue with... but its champions... who tend to do "as" religion does... while railing against religion. Given the amount of credence they give their own "intelligence", this makes no sense to me. But dear PSacto (the greatest of love and peace to you, as well!) explains it: man. Which is my point. BOTH are man... and so do the same "unto one another." That is hypocrisy... and I don't get it (well, I do, for MOST... but NOT for those here who, say, point fingers at religion and the WTBTS... which they were once a part of... because they're doing the SAME thing they did as JWs... and perhaps even more so).
Those people are close-minded...
Contrary to what they SAY, yes!
because one thing we should know by now is that those 'facts' are not set in stone. None of us know what we will discover in ten, a hundred, a thousand years. Something someone described two thousand years ago (or longer) might very well have happened... they just might not have had the scientific language or means to describe it as we would now... or a thousand years from now, etc.
Which is my point... and I thank you for saying it so concisely!
Most people of faith are just as thrilled about new scientific discoveries and what they might mean, as people without faith.
Okaaayyyy??? I would LOVE for this to turn out as those scientists theorize, NOT so that I can say, "Aha! Einstein was WRONG!" but so that WE might say, "What else have we perhaps limited our thinking about... and COULD there be things of a non-physical 'nature' that we don't know of, yet?" What intelligent person, whose thinking HAS surpassed the physical... would NOT want there to be more, perhaps proving that something "beyond" what we currently perceive DOES in fact exist? I find it SO... ummmm... interesting... at the offense taken here... and the "direction" some folks thought I was taking... as well as the INTENTION. They couldn't be further from the truth; however, given the WTBTS backgroun, conditioning and, understandably, baggage ... the unfounded suspicion is... well, understandable. Sad, still... but understandable...
Like having most of the pieces of a puzzle, and 'seeing' more each time a piece is added. As if you've been told what the picture IS (and you trust that), but you don't see it 100% clear until all the pieces are put in?
YES, dear tec. Yes.
I get it that most here have been SO burned by religion (and the WTBTS in particular)... and my heart aches for these. I understand it. But, golly... the thinking is SO closed-minded... that I am flabbergasted, truly. I don't get the claims of open-mindedness and "intelligence"... yet, utterly closed and locked thinking, reasoning, and perspective. But, ah, well... what can you do? Only share what you're given... and then hope. That's it, that's all.
Again, peace to you, dear one... and thank you, as always, for trying to help others see what I mean.
YOUR servant, sister, and fellow slave of Christ,
SA, who has openly professed that she does not "think" the way many do, and so can only articulate these things as HER mind... and heart... work...
Oo back on topic.
Truth is a conceptual property of a brain. Without a brain to observe there is no concept as truth. Since we construct truth in our brain from multiple inputs it is possible for an optical illusion to mean one truth within the brain but to be another truth when deconstructed objectively. So when you see a banana under blue light your brain can still perceive a yellow skin even though it is mainly energy waves normally perceived as shades of blue that are being received.
This works also on a mechanical level as Einstein brilliantly explained. A passing train carrying a light would trace a line as it passed indicating movement but to a passenger on the train that same light would remain motionless and fixed. The truth is relative to the brain observing it.
When we talk of objective truth we mean that when conditions are replicated otherwise equal brains will perceive the same thing.
Truth must not be confused with non-existent states conjured by the imagination (like Thor is banging his hammer when lightning strikes).
AGuest - feel free to throw in some evidence amongst the verbal deluge. If you really, truly have stumbled upon evidence for a real invisible god you should share your facts here , heck get on TV - we need something more important that Greek debt stories.
Seriously.
However, if you can't / won't / are forbidden by Xenu then I understand but will never respect. A now sadly infrequent poster on here called Abbadon used to rip me a strip when I first came here. Hurt like hell. Almost left in wounded pride over it. Turns out he was right and for all my protestations and despite my cock eyed logic I was utterly wrong. I can't pretend to love those I know not, I prefer my love authentic, won through shared experience however, I do utterly respect those who say what they mean backed with the facts. I respect Abbadon.
Evolution as a mechanism is proven, it has been observed occurring
I beg to differ, dear Q (again, peace to you!)... it has NOT been observed in humans... at least not so far as the species derived from an[other] species, genus, phylus, family, or kind. Nor has it been observed outside of a genus/phylus/family... but only with a genus and as to the result of another species... within the same genus. So while I agree that "evolution" does indeed occur, it is to the EXTENT that it occurs that I disagree with.
To a religious person like AGuest or Tec or me several years ago imaginary beings are real and no evidence is required, just emotional commitment and a tangible, painful fear to avoid confronting the obvious.
Again, I must disagree. First, that I am a "religious" person. I am not. I ABHOR religion and religious thinking/conduct. Second, that imaginery beings are real AND that NO evidence is required. My beliefs are based ON evidence: that which I hear and see. If I had a painful fear to avoid confronting ANYTHING... I would never have left the WTBTS (or confronted THEM as to THEIR obvious falsities). If I have a fear, dear one, it is in misleading others. And so that is why I endeavor to share what I receive from my Lord EXACTLY as I receive it... and openly confess that I received FROM him... not something I made up (which would be a LIE). If I didn't care... I WOULD lie to you folks.
C'mon... as you and others point out, there are many gullible people out there. And all kinds of money to be made off them... as well as followers. I once shared that, as a black woman, I could out to the street not 5 blocks from my home, slap a shingle on a building... and open a church. Seriously, African Americans are HUGE church-goers. And they don't care if their "pastor" is a man or a woman... so long as such can sing (j/k, but I CAN sing). So, what, you don't think with what I share here I could get people of ALL ilk to follow ME? I course I could. Heck, if Joel Osteen can do it... Creflo Dollar (Creflo DOLLAR??!!). Some would even throw money at my feet... because that is just HOW gullible some are!
But that is NOT my mission... my intent... or my motive. I don't want... or need... anyone to follow ME. I don't want... or need... anyone's money or reverence. Because it is NOT about ME. I... am just a servant... that's it, that's all.
Now, you don't get that, don't accept that... no worries. I don't NEED you to. You are a free moral agent, with the RIGHT... and POWER... to CHOOSE what you will/will not believe/accept. I cannot control that for you... nor do I want to. The Most Holy One of Israel doesn't want man to believe He exists because someone says they'll die if they don't. He wants you to believe it BECAUSE IT'S TRUE.
What better way to display humility than to tell someone that you are humble?,.... learn something new everyday.
Never said I was humble, dear Jay (peace to you!). I stated that I understand HUMILITY... which is not necessarily the same thing. One can be humble... and one can express humility/be humiliated. But man's perception of humility isn't the same as God's. Speaking the truth... particular when others cannot stand for you to do so and so you risk... and often experience... humiliation... is a form of humility. It means such one "despises shame"... and so will BE shamed, even if it means speaking the truth.
Of couse, mock humility ("I am NOT humble, and so because I say I'm not humble, I'm actually humble")... is so much better than saying the truth, isn't it?
Again, peace to you, both!
YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,
SA
I beg to differ, dear Q (again, peace to you!)... it has NOT been observed in humans... at least not so far as the species derived from an[other] species, genus, phylus, family, or kind. Nor has it been observed outside of a genus/phylus/family... but only with a genus and as to the result of another species... within the same genus. So while I agree that "evolution" does indeed occur, it is to the EXTENT that it occurs that I disagree with.It has been observed in humans in the form of fossil records and genetic evidence.
One can be humble
Oh yeah, according to whom?
What better way to display humility than to tell someone that you are humble?
jay88 Moses liked to dish out that ironic nugget too...
Numbers 12:3 “Now the man Moses was very humble, more than all men who were on the face of the earth.”
Einstein was not "wrong."
What Einstein did was attempt to organize the existing information at that time into a structure.
He was successful in doing that.
Now if new data is obtained that "contradicts" the structure Einstein created, then the structure must be modified.
Science consists of organizing knowledge obtained by experiments.
AGuest - feel free to throw in some evidence amongst the verbal deluge.
I have done so on many occasions, dear Q (again, peace to you!). For example, I have posted what I've heard and seen that corresponds to what science even states. For example, the event that brought the physical universe into existence. Comports with what science (well, those who believe in a "big bang") states. However, it also comports with what those who believe in "multiverses" believe, as well.
If you really, truly have stumbled upon evidence for a real invisible god you should share your facts here
I have done that. My "evidence" is His Son... whom anyone can access. I can help with that, if you're having trouble. Just give me a call. I will PM you my phone number.
heck get on TV -
Now why would I do that? For one, I haven't been directed to any place but here. Second, if I were to, say, go global, etc., people would begin following ME... and you know it. Heck, someone only needs to say they saw a cross in a church bathroom window... or the image of Christ on a piece of toast... and people will flock to see it. Then they start venerating the one who made the window or toasted the bread ("YOU are so BLESSED!"). But it's not ABOUT me... not at all. How is it that you don't get that?
we need something more important that Greek debt stories.
Which is WHY "they" give you all of the crap "they" GIVE you, dear one: because you all NEED "something more." Golden calves. And so, you've had imposters constructing them for millenia now. Great cathedrals and compounds... altars, pyramids... crystal buildings. And creating "miracles" in places like grottos and in the robes of women, etc. You all NEED all of that melarkey... and there are many who are more than willing to give them to you.
Seriously.
Yeah, seriously... you get what you ASK for...
However, if you can't / won't / are forbidden by Xenu then I understand but will never respect.
I can/will/and am not forbidden. Just waiting for my phone to ring...
A now sadly infrequent poster on here called Abbadon used to rip me a strip when I first came here. Hurt like hell. Almost left in wounded pride over it. Turns out he was right and for all my protestations and despite my cock eyed logic I was utterly wrong.
So you believe... and that's entirely your prerogative. Personally, I don't respond well to folks attempting to "rip a strip" from me. You wanna reason with me? By all means, let's discuss... but let's use the intelligence we both believe we possess...
I can't pretend to love those I know not,
Yes, I know... which means your love is limited. You have no right, however, to put such a limitation on others. There are many who put their lives on the line, perhaps ever die... every day... for those they love... but do not know...
I prefer my love authentic, won through shared experience
That's not love, dear Q. That's affection. And no, they're not one and the same. Hence, the term "love... AND affection."
however, I do utterly respect those who say what they mean backed with the facts.
Not that I want/need your respect, but since it's important to YOU... I await your call.
I respect Abbadon.
Me, too. I respect EVERYONE... until they give me a reason not to do so. And dear Abbadon hasn't given me a reason NOT to respect him. Nor have you... yet. Wait... I think my phone's ringi... oh, oops, no... not yet...
Peace, dear Q... truly!
YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,
SA
jay88 Moses liked to dish out that ironic nugget too...
Numbers 12:3 “Now the man Moses was very humble, more than all men who were on the face of the earth.”
When it comes to self-proclamation whether Moses, the watchtower, or forum members,... I say notice the trend and see where you end up.
