What is "truth" - COULD Einstein Have Been Wrong?

by AGuest 197 Replies latest jw friends

AGuest

The rest of us have to take the slow road and read with interest each new discovery that scientist make in the hope that we can move slightly closer to truth.
Actually, that's not accurate, dear Glad (again, peace to you!). Some of you CHOOSE to take that road. Which is absolutely your right. You walk. So what? Walking "good" for you. I choose to fly. So what? Oh, that's right... man can't fly. Not in and of himself, no, he can't. With the right TOOL, however, he can actually soar!
Or read the pages of the Bible in the hope of finding a few clues.
Oooh, no... I would never suggest that. That will not only keep on a slow road... but will most assuredly take you off the beaten track entirely. Find yourself lost in the wilderness, you will. Which is why so many are...
Why waste time debating with us?
Oh, Lordy... who's debating with YOU? This was my thread, remember??
Just share with us some detail of the priceless truth that has been revealed to you AGuest.
Been doing that for over 10 years, now, dear one. Pages and pages of sharing...
So far you have offered nothing new or anything of real interest.
Nothing new, no. I share what I receive when I receive it. Haven't received anything particularly "new" in a bit, but it often works like that. I reading of my posts will show that. Sometimes an entire years passes. So what? I don't set the timeline.
As for something "of real interest" I will say (1) that depends on who we're talking about, and (2)... then what the HECK are YOU doing in this thread??????????? SOMETHING "interested" you... else you would have passed it by. I mean, I'm just sayin'...
For that reason I can be forgiven for remaining sceptical until you reveal something that mere scientific men and women have so far failed to uncover without Divine help.
But dear, dear Glad... I don't CARE if you remain skeptical. I am not trying to CONVINCE you... of ANYTHING. Really, it's YOU all who "doth protest too much," methinks...
As I have said before, I envy your belief but am unable to follow where you go.
Then don't try, dear one. Believe as you do - I do not judge you. But please... leave ME free to believe as I do. You ask me a question... even if it's undertoned with religion innuendo... so what? I will respond, if I can, as best I can... with respect. For you. Because even if I don't agree with you... you have a right to ask questions and/or at least TRY to understand, if that's what you wish to do. I only ask the same freedom... and respect... from you. I mean, I might think YOU'RE kinda "nuts" for putting ALL of your faith in science... but I absolutely respect your RIGHT to do so... so long as you're not using science to harm ME (or mine or others).
In the same vein, I would think that, if nothing else, "intelligence" would lead YOU to respect MY right to put MY faith in the Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies... and His Son and Christ, the Holy One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA... the Chosen One of JAH... so long as I'm not using them to harm YOU (or yours or others).
Perhaps, like some others... you can't SEE that... because you keep lumping me in with religion... in which I have NO part. But that deficiency is yours... not mine. It's like seeing all black people as gang bangers and hoochies... simply because they use certain vernacular ("What's up, cuz?"). Ridiculous.
Nahhmsayin'?
Again, peace to you!
YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,
SA
AGuest

I also like to watch the "House wives of Atlanta",
{{{{{{Shudder}}}}}}}
Almost as bad as Maury Povich, Phil Donahue, Jerry Springer... and "Basketball Wives" {{{{{{shudder again!}}}}}}
Ah, well. Maybe you can't tell a book by its cover. Can you tell a person by the TV shows they watch?
Peace, dear Jay, truly...
A slave of Christ,
SA
jay88

Can you tell a person by the TV shows they watch?
No more than I could when reading My fav poster's comments on JWN.(jk)
bohm

SA, who "put up"... and thinks that perhaps now you should consider manifesting the following part of that old saying...
Aguest: No you did not. in your 7719 posts, you have not provided ONE shred of evidence which support your hallucinations are anything more than manifestation of some underlying neurological disorder or disturbance. You need to be aware of that fact and consider what it might imply.
Visual hallucinations are not a laughing matter. you may be seriously ill and in need of medical attention. Consider what it would look and feel like if you was infact ill and needed treatment, and if you would advice a person in your situation, ie. exhibiting symptoms of serious disorders, to seek professional help.
Just to take the first pick from a long list:
Visual hallucinations in those with schizophrenia tend to involve vivid scenes with family members, religious figures, and animals. 10 Reactions to these visions can vary and include fear, pleasure, or indifference. The hallucinations are usually described as colorful and involving normal-sized people and objects; however, visual hallucinations of giants have also been reported. 11
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2660156/
I dont think you have a tumor because apparently these hallucinations have been going on for years, and you seem to be highly functional. But it need to be emphasized that repeated, percistent hallucinations is something which should make one seek out the doctor, not spend 7000 posts seeking out arguments why the hallucinations may not be real, and dismiss all of them with a "peace to you", "a slave of christ" and a reference to the hallucinations and voices seeming more real than anything. i know from a fact from someone at a mental institution it is very common that the voices seem more real than the real world.
I understand you get a lot out of doing this, and I would properly do something similar if i was really convinced my hallucinations was God himself sending me out on a special mission. I really get that. But i dont think it is very smart. By your actions you may persuade people who experience hallucinations caused by serious conditions like tumors to avoid much needed medical attention because they want to soar as you put it.
ProdigalSon

I'm 80 pages into a book called "The Fabric of the Cosmos" by Brian Greene. Fascinating stuff.
The Red and the Blue
To get a feel for the kind of nonlocality emerging from quantum mechanics, imagine that Agent Scully, long overdue for a vacation, retreats to her family's estate in Provence. Before she's had time to unpack, the phone rings. It's Agent Mulder calling from America. "Did you get the box- the one wrapped in red and blue paper?" Scully, who has dumped all her mail in a pile by the door, looks over and sees the package. "Mulder, please, I didn't come all the way to Aix just to deal with another stack of files." "No, no, the package is not from me. I got one too, and inside there are these little lightproof titanium boxes, numbered from 1 to 1,000, and a letter saying that you would be receiving an identical package."
"Yes, so?" Scully slowly responds, beginning to fear that the titanium boxes may somehow wind up cutting her vacatlon short. "Well," Mulder continues, "the letter says that each titanium box contains an alien sphere that will flash red or blue the moment the little door on its side is opened." "Mulder, am I supposed to be impressed?" "Well, not yet, but listen. The letter says that before any given box is opened, the sphere has the capacity to flash either red or blue, and it randomly decides between the two colors at the moment the door is opened. But here's the strange part. The letter says that although your boxes work exactly the same way as mine- even though the spheres inside each one of our boxes randomly choose between flashing red or blue- our boxes somehow work in tandem. The letter claims that there is a mysterious connection, so that if there is a blue flash when I open my box 1, you will also find a blue flash when you open your box 1; if I see a red flash when I open box 2, you will also see a red flash in your box 2, and so on."
"Mulder, I'm really exhausted; let's let the parlor tricks wait till I get back."
"Scully, please. I know you're on vacation, but we can't just let this go. We'll only need a few mlnutes to see if it's true."
Reluctantly, Scully realizes that resistance is futile, so she goes along and opens her little boxes. And on comparing the colors that flash inside each box, Scully and Mulder do indeed find the agreement predicted in the letter. Sometimes the sphere in a box flashes red, sometimes blue, but on opening boxes with the same number, Scully and Mulder always see the same color flash. Mulder grows increasingly excited and agitated by the alien spheres but Scully is thoroughly unimpressed.
"Mulder," Scully sternly says into the phone, "you really need a vacation. This is silly. Obviously, the sphere inside each of our boxes has been programmed to flash red or it has been programmed to flash blue when the door to its box is opened. And whoever sent us this nonsense programmed our boxes identically so that you and I find the same color flash in boxes with the same number."
"But no, Scully, the letter says each alien sphere randomly chooses between flashing blue and red when the door is opened, not that the sphere has been preprogrammed to choose one color or the other."
"Mulder," Scully sighs, "my explanation makes perfect sense and it fits all the data. What more do you want? And look here, at the bottom of the letter. Here's the biggest laugh of all. The 'alien' small print informs us that not only will opening the door to a box cause the sphere inside to flash, but any other tampering with the box to figure out how it works for example, if we try to examine the sphere's color composition or chemical makeup before the door is opened- will also cause it to flash. In other words, we can't analyze the supposed random selection of red or blue because any such attempt will contaminate the very experiment we are tryingto carry out. It's as if I told you I'm really a blonde, but I become a redhead whenever you or anyone or anything looks at my hair or analyzes it in any way. How could you ever prove me wrong? Your tiny green men are pretty clever- they've set things up so their ruse can't be unmasked. Now go and play with your little boxes while I enjoy a little peace and quiet."
It would seem that Scully has this one soundly wrapped up on the side of science. Yet, here's the thing, Quantum mechanicians- scientists, not aliens- have for nearly eighty years been making claims about how the universe works that closely parallel those described in the letter. The rub is that there is now strong scientific evldence that a viewpoint along the lines of Muider's- not Scully's- is supported by the data. For instance, according to quantum mechanics, an article can hang in a state of limbo between having one or another particular property- like an "alien" sphere hovering between flashing red and flashing blue before the door to its box is opened- and only when the particle is looked at (measured) does it randomly commit to one definite property or another. As if this weren't strange enough, quantum mechanics also predicts that there can be connections between particles, similar to those claimed to exist between the alien spheres. Two particles can be so entwined by quantum effects that their random selection of one property or another is correlated: just as each of the alien spheres chooses randomly between red and blue and yet, somehow, the colors chosen by spheres in boxes with the same number are correlated (both flashing red or both flashing blue), the properties chosen randomly by two particles, even if they are far apart in space, can similarly be aligned perfectly. Roughly speaking, even though the two particles are widely separated, quantum mechanics shows that whatever one particle does, the other will do too.
As a concrete example, if you are wearing a pair of sunglasses, quantum mechanics shows that there is a 50-50 chance that a particular photon- like one that is reflected toward you from the surface of a lake or from an asphalt roadway- will make it through your glare-reducing polarized lenses: when the photon hits the glass, it randomly "chooses" between reflecting back and passing through. The astounding thing is that such a photon can have a partner photon that has sped miles away in the opposite direction and yet, when confronted with the same 50-50 probability of passing through another polarized sunglass lens, will somehow do whatever the initial photon does. Even though each outcome is determined randomly and even though the photons are far apart in space, if one photon passes through, so will the other. This is the kind of nonlocality predicted by quantum mechanics.
Einstein, who was never a great fan of quantum mechanics, was loath to accept that the universe operated according to such bizarre rules. He championed more conventional explanations that did away with the notion that particles randomly select attributes and outcomes when measured. Instead, Einstein argued that if two widely separated particles are observed to share certain attributes, this is not evidence of some mysterious quantum connection instantaneously correlating their properties. Rather, just as Scully argued that the spheres do not randomly choose between red and blue, but instead are programmed to flash one particular color when observed, Einstein claimed that particles do not randomly choose between having one feature or another but, instead, are similarly "programmed" to have one particular, definite feature when suitably measured. The correlation between the behavior of widely separated photons is evidence, Einstein claimed, that the photons were endowed with identical properties when emitted, not that they are subject to some bizarre long-distance quantum entanglement.
For close to five decades, the issue of who was right- Einstein or the supporters of quantum mechanics- was left unresolved because, as we shall see, the debate became much like that between Scully and Mulder: any attempt to disprove the proposed strange quantum mechanical connections and leave intact Einstein's more conventional view ran afoul of the claim that the experiments themselves would necessariiy contaminate the very features they were trying to study. All this changed in the 1960s.
With stunning insight, the Irish physicist John Bell showed that the issue could be settled experimentally, and by the 1980s it was. The most straightforward reading of the data is that Einstein was wrong, and there can be strange, weird, and "spooky" quantum connections between things over here and things over there. The reasoning behind this conclusion is so subtle that it took physicists more than three decades to appreciate fully. But after covering the essential features of quantum mechanics we will see that the core of the argument reduces to nothing more complex than a Click and Clack
puzzler.
THE GLADIATOR
THE GLADIATOR

Please remind us of just one thing that you have reported from you conversations with God that is of value to the world.
Science is not perfect but it is real, sincere and shares all it discovers along with the evidence it has to offer. It does not claim to know everything and will always be seeking to improve while searching in the dark.
With such an abundance of light that shining on you directly from God I am disappointed that you cannot offer something more to a forum filled with people who seek just one present of the divine revelation that you claim to be blessed with.
Twitch

Shelby
You did choose the word TRUTH in the title here for a reason, no? Or is it just a coincidence? ;)
One could say it's similar to previous threads you've started with similar subject matter and a similar tack. Surely you can see that? Others can and have. You chastise me for not being honest with myself, you can't even admit the reasons for your own threads and the reason behind them "oh, I don't mean to provoke but this is interesting". The level of passive aggressive "baiting" is all too apparent and if I was the only one who saw it, I might be wrong but I'm not. Call it a goose, it still walks like a duck. And the best part is the spin where you post something looking for responses and chastise those who disagree with the theme.
Somehow I didn't think you posted on other discussion boards which is understandable but not for the reasons you give (i.e. "I wasn't sent to them by the Lord"). I would think it could only widen your audience and help more of the lost and confused, those seeking that which they do not know. I would think that if what you hear is really TRUTH, it should be shared with everyone, at any time. Why limit the WORD? Surely it would stand up against any opposition, no? Perhaps you could ask whats-his-name if he's sent someone to the SDA or perhaps the Westboro Baptists as those people really need some TRUTH, no? Or do they have it already? One might think your views on god and what you've been told would be welcome discussion. Apparently though, this is not the case but I would love to be a virtual fly on the cyber wall if you should ever decide to discuss your views with a wider audience.
As for your request for me not to read your threads, you are saying I should keep my opinion to myself? That I should refrain from voicing an opinion if it's in disagreement with yours or the topic? Well, since you play the WTS card often with others, I guess it's ok for me too as well in this instance since the shoe fits. But I post because it's my prerogative on a public forum. I've never told you to refrain from voicing your opinion and wouldn't but you can follow your own advice and ignore my posts if you don't like what's said. I'm not really posting for your benefit or to change your mind or beliefs anyways; this is not about you or me.
Despite your analysis, I have no problem with christians or god, in fact, if your opinion is that I'm somehow trying to work out some internal issue with god, it would stand to reason that I would debate anyone/everyone on it. Do I? Please direct me to threads where I rail against christianity and god in general on an ongoing basis. I work with a couple diehard christians; we get along fine. I have couple good friends who are christians, some wiccans, some atheists, the odd buddhist, some hedonists, a good mix in fact. And if and when the moment arises, I will discuss it much as I do here. Think of me as you will; I don't mind and certainly won't be offended by your opinion or chastisement or whatever you're saying about the reasons for why I do what I do. As if you know me better than I do.
Bottom line it really doesn't matter as we both are settled in our beliefs and affect the world as best we can. I'm with those who are skeptical of "holy ones" who speak with god and preach their version of TRUTH. And I like it that way. But I'm not surprised you don't post your unorthodox beliefs to a more challenging and diverse audience; much easier soil for sowing here. For what it's worth, I'd have much more respect and admiration for you if you could hold your own in other forums. Let me know if and when that happens...
Anywho,..
AGuest

Aguest: No you did not. in your 7719 posts, you have not provided ONE shred of evidence which support your hallucinations are anything more than manifestation of some underlying neurological disorder or disturbance.
Sure I did, dear Bohm (peace to you!). I have stated... more than once... more than perhaps a hundred times... what I heard and what I saw. What I observed... after conducting my "test." Now, in order to you to "test" that... you would have to hear and see it, too, yes? And so, I told dear Q (peace to you!) to call me and gave him my number. You are MORE than welcome to call, as well, so that I can tell you what I "did"... so that you can "do" it, too... and "observe" the "results" that I have. I will PM my number in a sec...
You need to be aware of that fact and consider what it might imply.
I think you have your "facts" skewed, dear one. It is interesting to ME, though, that you haven't PERSONALLY tested Einstein's... or any other similar theory... yet you believe it. Based, of course, on what others say occurred when THEY tested it. Wouldn't you believe it even more if you tested it YOURSELF? So, why rely on what I and others have shared regarding this matter? Why not test it for yourself? Wouldn't what YOU personally observe hold as much, if not MORE weight... than what someone else told you THEY observed?
Visual hallucinations are not a laughing matter.
I would agree...
you may be seriously ill and in need of medical attention.
Fortunately, none of my doctors seem to think so...
Consider what it would look and feel like if you was infact ill and needed treatment, and if you would advice a person in your situation, ie. exhibiting symptoms of serious disorders, to seek professional help.
If I thought the person was ill and needed treatment, I would suggest they get it, yes. However, a person in MY situation would not necessarily fit that bill. Even so I would advise such a one to seek "professional" help; however, it would be from an expert ON the matter. Thus, I would send them to my Lord, the Holy One of Israel and Holy Spirit... JAHESHUA... the Chosen One of JAH, the MOST Holy One of Israel. I mean, he IS the best physician, both spiritually AND physically. So...
Just to take the first pick from a long list: Visual hallucinations in those with schizophrenia tend to involve vivid scenes with family members, religious figures, and animals.
Well, that rules me out. I don't hallucinate about my family, any religious figure, and certainly not animals. I am not sure what they mean by "vivid", though. I mean, I see quite clearly, but sometimes "vivid" can mean... ummmmm (yeah, I used that again)... "graphic." That's not really the case here.
Reactions to these visions can vary and include fear, pleasure, or indifference.
LOLOLOLOL! Well, that about covers the gamut of "reactions", does it not? Sort of "Salem witchhunt-ish, is you ask me ("Well, if she floats, the Devil's helping her... but if she drowns, God's condemned her... and if nothing at all happens... well, they've both washed their hands of her and since God has washed His hands, too... she's condemned and so must die.") Damned if I have fear... damned if I don't have fear. Damned if I have pleasure... damned if don't have pleasure. Damned if nothing happens at all...
The hallucinations are usually described as colorful and involving normal-sized people and objects; however, visual hallucinations of giants have also been reported.
Giants? What I see is of normal "color", dear one. I cannot say, however, that the "people" are normal-sized... as they are "people", at least, not as we describe people. As to objects... hmmmmmmm... I mean, they look like others have said they look...
I dont think you have a tumor because apparently these hallucinations have been going on for years, and you seem to be highly functional.
YOU don't think I have a tumor? Seriously? So, okay, what... if I had one I should have it removed... what, so's I can be [your interpretation] of "normal"? I think maybe you've watched one too many reruns of "Phenomenon"...
But it need to be emphasized that repeated, percistent hallucinations is something which should make one seek out the doctor, not spend 7000 posts seeking out arguments why the hallucinations may not be real, and dismiss all of them with a "peace to you", "a slave of christ" and a reference to the hallucinations and voices seeming more real than anything.
WHAT hallucinations? What have I shared here... that even equates with a hallucination? I mean, you're certainly entitled to your opinon, but I truly think that if I showed up at some doctor's office, shared what I do here... they would not deem me crazy. They would think me trying to deem MYSELF "crazy"... in order to get government assistance. I've shared nothing here that puts me in the category of schizophrenic... or even remotely mentally ill.
i know from a fact from someone at a mental institution it is very common that the voices seem more real than the real world.
Yes, this is true. The operative words here, though, are "seem more real" and "the real world." I won't elaborate... because I don't think you can handle that... yet.
I understand you get a lot out of doing this,
I do, actually. I know that I am doing the best I can to show my Lord that I love him and have faith in what he tells and shows me... including that he is alive (and not dead as even some "believers" believe). I mean, it's not a lot... and it certainly won't compensate for what he's done for ME... recently AND close to 2,000 years ago... but, yeah, I prefer that over sitting around ignoring him, yes.
and I would properly do something similar if i was really convinced my hallucinations was God himself sending me out on a special mission.
I would love to say you would, but I believe you are SO concerned with what others [might think of] you... that you'd hide that "talent" under a rock. Shove it in closet and HOPE TO GOD nothing compels you to let it out. Because you don't strike me as the particularly courageous type, dear one... but more of the "Well, okay, yeah, I hear [it/him], too, but I'm not ABOUT to tell anyone and make myself look a fool."
I really get that.
I don't think you do. Because if you DID... you wouldn't have such a problem with ME. You would say, as you did above, "Yeah, I'd probably do something similar under the same circumstances"... along with, "Yet, I'm so grateful it's NOT me... because I wouldn't want to go through what she does. But if someone has to do it... and she doesn't have a problem doing it... who am I to have a problem with HER?"
But i dont think it is very smart.
And there you go. It's NOT smart, dear Bohm. It is ENTIRELY foolish. I have NEVER denied that. To the contrary, I have openly admitted that I am a foolish one...
By your actions you may persuade people who experience hallucinations caused by serious conditions like tumors to avoid much needed medical attention because they want to soar as you put it.
You have got to be kidding. No one's listening to me, dear Bohm. SURELY, you know this.
Thank you for your attempt to diagnose me. I do believe it came from a sincere place, truly; however, it is greatly misdirected, dear one. Truly. There's nothing "wrong" with me. And please... don't think I haven't checked. With quite credible sources, actually. Even professionals. THEY don't think I'm crazy. Would they say that publicly? I don't know. People have a tendency to deny their loyalties, even turn and flee... when they think THEY might be subject to some of that... ummmm... same "persecution." Nothing new under the sun. That's why I don't rely on what others think... even if they agree.
But thank you... and, again, peace to you!
YOUR servant (still, because I AM a servant to the Household of God, Israel... even if they don't know who THEY are), and a slave of Christ,
SA
AGuest

Please remind us of just one thing that you have reported from you conversations with God that is of value to the world.
If you're addressing me, dear Glad (again, peace to you, and I assume that you are addressing me)... I have to first say that my conversations are not with God. Never said they were. Don't know where you... and those who keep assuming this... get this. Second, I have to ask you: what in the WORLD makes you think ANYTHING I've reported is of value to... or for purposes of... the world?? I realize that, because you are PART of the world, that would be important to you. It's not to me... nor to those I most often share such conversations with.
Science is not perfect but it is real, sincere and shares all it discovers along with the evidence it has to offer.
That's wonderful and I get it! Because I am not perfect, I am real, sincere, and share (virtually) all that I get from my Lord... along with either the evidence or corroboration that comes with it. Every time.
It does not claim to know everything and will always be seeking to improve while searching in the dark.
Nor do I (claim to know everything; indeed, I openly CONFESS that I know NOTHING)... and so will I (always be seeking to improve, especially so that I hear/see even more/better and share it accurately). I am not searching, however, nor in the dark. I have been found... by the Light... and so I just follow him. The "dark" was kinda scary... 'cause man made it that way. Since the Light, however... there is no more darkness for me. True, I can't see everything... but I only have to follow his voice... and I know what's going on IN that darkness. Somethings... but not a whole lot that is too concerning.
With such an abundance of light that shining on you directly from God I am disappointed that you cannot offer something more to a forum filled with people who seek just one present of the divine revelation that you claim to be blessed with.
What would you like, dear one? A "miracle"? Please... that didn't work for those without faith way back when... when such occurred right before their very eyes. Why in the world do you think it would work now... when some of you have even LESS faith? At least those believed in GOD... although they did not believe my Lord was His Son. Some of you don't even have THAT little "mustard seed" (belief in God... regardless of His Son).
Seriously? You want to make your lack of faith MY fault. It isn't. It lies with you... and you all can shake your fist at God, Christ, me, the sky... whatever. Won't change a thing: it still lies with you.
But thank you for YOUR "concern"... and, again, peace to you, as well!
YOUR servant (yes, yours, too, still, because I am a servant to ALL those of the Household of God... Israel... even if they don't know they're Israel - "Contenders with God"), and a slave of Christ,
SA

What is "truth" - COULD Einstein Have Been Wrong?

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