Interesting Thought (standing for the pledge...)

by darthfader 41 Replies latest social humour

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  No Room For George

  I think George has some real loyalty issues with the United States.

  Only in the sense that I have no loyalties with any so called countrymen. Maybe it's the result of a JW upbringing, or being raised as the son of a black veteran who was treated poorly all his life in this country and still carries justifiable resentment towards this country. It's probably a combination of both, but sticking to the thread topic, the picture leads one to conclude that the veteran lost his ability to walk supposedly over defending people's right to pledge or not pledge. I don't agree with that summation, and I'm glad to see other posters don't agree either. By the way, I don't think Halliburton or BlackWater disagree with me either. General Smedley Butler wouldn't have disagreed with me either if he were still alive. To believe those boys are over there losing their lives, coming home crippled emotionally and physically over an honorable cause, is just plain offensive.
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  techdotcom

  Oh btw here is a nice link to show the orginal way to salute the flag. See any similiarities to socialist regimes of the past.....?

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Students_pledging_allegiance_to_the_American_flag_with_the_Bellamy_salute.jpg
• 

  MrFreeze

  Why can you stand out of respect for the pledge but not stand out of respect for the National Anthem?
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  techdotcom

  The problem is this, people see the cartoon of the soldier in the wheelchair and any one with a heart is moved with the concept of what he sacrificed for his country. Then they just stop thinking when they read the caption. Then they immidiatly form a strong emotional reaction without thought to what is really just some kids showing a horrible lack of manners, NOT someone pissing on the fallen soldier sitting in the chair and not someone necessarily making a political point.

  Grow up, think for yourselves, stop letting a picture that is the emotional equivelent of the cat in the "hang in there" pic drive your anger and moral outrage.

  As for the other posts on the war in Iraq and such, seems completly off topic and distracts from issue of weather or not failing to stand and pledge alligiance to the flag and country is inherently disrespectful to a soldier disabled in service to his country.
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  james_woods

  As for the other posts on the war in Iraq and such, seems completly off topic and distracts from issue of weather or not failing to stand and pledge alligiance to the flag and country is inherently disrespectful to a soldier disabled in service to his country.

  Completely true.

  What is interesting to me is that a topic which I thought was a discussion of the JW stand on refusal to salute the flag, but still allowing JWs to stand for the flag salute, turned into sort of an anti-U.S. political debate.

  I still have issues with the JW rule: Why not refuse to stand if you also refuse to salute? Especially if you refuse to stand for the national anthem?

  And, I restate my earlier thought - although the JWs deny it, I think their issue with the national anthem and flag salute is really more political than it is religious...(as was their earlier and since discarded notion that unarmed service as a conscientous objector was somehow "ungodly")
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  undercover

  going back to the original topic...

  those quotes from the WT that Blondie shared are interesting but for whatever reason in my part of the WT world when I was a kid, there was no standing for either the anthem or the pledge. I know...I was physically forced to stand in the 1st grade when a substitute teacher refused to accept my programmed response as to why I wasn't standing. She jerked me out of the chair and pulled me up even as a let my body go limp and refused to let my feet touch the floor. A humiliating experience that I blame my cult indoctrinated parents for more than the over zealous teacher who violated my constitutional rights.

  Even though the WTS allowed for a compromise of sorts reading those quotes, that wasn't always the practice among the more zealous JWs. Maybe it was a regional thing as well. I grew up among quite a zealous lot of dubs. It wasn't until I was a teen that I started interacting with 'liberal' dubs from other places. It was eye opening to see JWs act more like the world than like the JWs that I was accustomed to.
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  james_woods

  What year(s) were those, Undercover? I had the impression that the JWs always offically taught that it was proper to stand, but improper to recite the pledge of allegiance.

  My parents joined it in about 1962...when I was 13.

  For what it is worth, I never quit reciting the pledge as I did not think it was in the bible, nor that it was any of the JWs business.
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  No Room For George

  All throughout elementary school I stood, and all the other JW kids stood as well, but we never recited anything or put our hands over our hearts. In Middle School for whatever reason, I don't recall the pledge ever being transmitted over the intercom or the teacher leading us to do so in individual classrooms. In high school is where it got tricky for me as I'd stand for the pledge and to my shock none of the other teens stood. They all sat there with the most disrespectful of manners , and the teachers were too fearful and lacked enough control in the classroom to make them do otherwise. Their disrespect was class and race related without a doubt. They'd blatantly state, "Fuck that flag." After a couple days of that it became too awkward and embarrasing for me to stand. Crazy thinking back as a JW I had more respect for it than the nonJWs in the class. With that said, that's why I never associated the opening post with JW related matters because the way that kid is sitting in that illustration with his feet on the desk and arms folded is foreign to my experiences as a born-in who attended public shools.
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  undercover

  James, 1st grade... 1966

  Which is after the article that Blondie posted. But - there were lots of instances were local dubs, my parents included, went beyond the things written, so to speak, so as to not come close to grieving the holy spirit. If the WTS said the pledge was wrong, then by jah, not only will we not say it, we won't even stand for it. One could say that that's an isolated case, but I saw it quite often in my area. Standing for the PoA was out...period.
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  james_woods

  In high school is where it got tricky for me as I'd stand for the pledge and to my shock none of the other teens stood. They all sat there with the most disrespectful of manners , and the teachers were too fearful and lacked enough control in the classroom to make them do otherwise. Their disrespect was class and race related without a doubt. They'd blatantly state, "Fuck that flag."

  And is it not ironic that here we have several people applauding the JW fights in the supreme court to enable these people to do exactly this?

  I think I am going to start another thread on hidden JW political agendas (while they claim to be non-political and neutral).