As other have mentioned DO NOT get sucked into the meeting with the elders. They will simply DF you when they realize that you are "unrepentent" of your apostasy. They will encourage your wife to take a stand and that this is Jehovahs will. They will simply force your wife to chose between her husband or Jehovah (where eternal life exists). They will tell her that by her faith she can save you and hopefully she can win you over again. They will tell her that in order to save her children she must agree with the elders. Trust me, I almost went the distance before I realized that I was fucked. The only saving grace I had was that I threatened to sue them individually. At which point they backed off. When she has her meeting on Sunday and sees you and your kids getting ready for a GREAT time somewhere else, she may fight you on this, especially since she sees the meetings as her childrens salvation. Explain that missing ONE meeting won't hurt. Have the time of your life... two things will eventually happen - your kids will no longer want to go to meetings and your wife will feel left out, hearing all the GREAT stories being told when she gets home hearing of your adventure. Women naturally want to be a part of something and next time you set up an outing she will reason that missing one meeting isn't that bad... one leads to more, and more, until YOU can finally win her over to see reason and logic!
Now what do I do?
by outsmartthesystem 30 Replies latest jw friends
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ABibleStudent
Hi outsmartthesystem, I agree with sinis. It is much better not to talk with your wife about the WTBTS, tell her how much you love her and your children, and plan fun activities that you and your family can do and will allow them to interact with "Worldly" people, especially if those activities will prevent them from going to meetings. If you are unhappy with your current career, it would also be a good idea to get more education to qualify for a better career - could be a good excuse for your wife about why you were unhappy.
If your wife continues to ask you about meeting with the elders, just tell her you love her so much that you would rather not cause her cognitive dissonance or get DF'ed by the elders. If she persists after saying how much you love her, you can always ask her, "Who does she follow spiritually and who is her mediator with Our Father?" If she says Jesus Christ, than ask her if she is sure about that and show her Watchtower and Awake! articles that say she must follow the GB. Do not say anything negative about the GB or how you feel, let her discover the truth her self. Good-luck!!!
Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,
ABibleStudent
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DesirousOfChange
SINIS:You approched this the wrong way. If you get DF-d the elders will encourage your wife to leave you. Trust me, I was down this road. You need to make a 180 degree change. DO NOT talk about the WTS any longer, no more negative stuff to your wife, let it completely go. What you need to do is take the back door approach and show your wife that you are HAPPIER without the borg. Take your kids to B-day parties, set up parties for them, celebrate the holidays, go out on the town... basically show your wife that people who leave are HAPPIER and are not falsely given the stigma (according to WTS) of dog vomit.
ISAAC: I tend to agree with Sinis. No offense, but I think you're going about this the wrong way.
I hate to say this--and I know that many on the board are big on the same line of argument as you--but I doubt they'll care about your research. They will only look at each other sadly, realizing that you're not just some weak, crazy, mixed up kid...which all we lesser apostates supposedly are...but you are instead a dangerous individual who must be dealt with for the good of the congregation. Right now, they probably think you just need straightening out, which is (partially) why they promised your wife they wouldn't DF you. Once they realize they were wrong, they will DF you anyway.
SINIS: As other have mentioned DO NOT get sucked into the meeting with the elders. They will simply DF you when they realize that you are "unrepentent" of your apostasy. They will encourage your wife to take a stand and that this is Jehovahs will.
ff
My dear Brother, you have NOT out smarted the system this time.
If you go into the meeting with Elders and/or CO, you will be DFd.
Perhaps you could tell your wife that you INTEND to do so, but ask her to listen to your prepared material and the issues you struggle with. Then back out on the meeting with the Elders. Thus she will have seen the controversy and facts of the matter, but you avoid the Elders. I think it better that you attribute this info to some other person who raised it with you. A family member or someone at work. BLAME THEM!
Your other alternative is to decide that the new Watchtowers (Oct & Nov) have completely resolved the issues you had. GOLLY GEE! Why didn't they ever explain the 607 fiasco so clearly before????????????? No need to meet with anyone. Start playing the Theocratic Strategy Game.
Either way, you're gonna be gut-wrentching sick to your stomach. But, it's your family at risk.
Good luck. (Oops! Can I say that?)
DOC
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man oh man
Sounds like your wife wants to hear your side of the story. Get her to understand that you cannot talk with the elders as they will not listen!!! Remind her of the problems that you getting df will cause your family. I difused my wife from approaching the elders that way and explained I will never go to another meeting with her ever again. It worked. Now I just wait for each moment that comes along and stick in the facts. Eventually the real truth will shine through. Again she sounds curious to me and thats all you need to work with. Hope it goes well for you.
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jamiebowers
They assured her that no DF'ing would take place unless I "shout from the roof tops my disagreements and recruit others to follow me".
Please ask your wife what part of this reassurance she doesn't understand. Once you make your objections clear about the "truth" to the elders, you'll be df'd. And you'll be considerd a spiritual endangerment to her and your kids. This type of talk with the elders is exactly what got SD-7 df'd, and his wife remains a jw despite knowing his reasons for leaving the "truth".
Take the advice of most here, and charm your family into becoming part of the real world. Good luck
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jean-luc picard
Reading all the posts, I see there is some conflicting opinions. Its very hard for someone to tell you what to do, as we cannot know all the elements of your situation.
Personally, I tend to reason: if you are not sure what to do, then do nothing yet.
May I suggest, however, that you start looking up topics about how to persuade and negociate.
for example
http://www.kent.ac.uk/careers/sk/persuading.htm
There must be loits of other interesting links. The above gives one or two techniques that you might be able to use. If you are gonig to be dfd, then take the time to give it your very best shot. You'll never convince the elders, its your wife that you wish to convince.
Trying to "softly softly " sow some seeds of doubt could be interesting, but also long. You need time to do that.
Is there anything that your wife has at least a little problem with in the borg? Could be a starting poin
Good luck with your cause outsmart....
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rebel8
She won't talk with me on a one on one basis for fear that I will unknowingly seek to wreck her faith.
Would it work for you to ask her to discuss it with you--you are instructing her to do this as her scriptural head? But you will both agree to some ground rules?
You both promise to be 100% truthful and open-minded. If one party violates this the other can end the discussion. If one feels overwhelmed then a break can be taken but it is not grounds to stop the discussion permanently.
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Qcmbr
Why not ask her? As an adult you can discuss with her your fears as posted:
1 - You recognise your previous behaviour and how you think that she may have had be extra zealous to compensate (allow her time to respond).
2 - You recognise now that this may have diminished the ability to examine and discuss these issues, together, without the preconceived idea that it is merely an extension of your previous obstructionist behaviour (maybe discuss that it is partially an extension but now there is a new driver, the evidence that now you would like to consider to allow your conscience to rest.)
3 - You are afraid that discussing this with the elders may put you both in an awkward social and relationship place (i.e. this is a high risk situation because the elders may mistakenly or correctly DF you - either way that is the worst case scenario.)
4 - You are not certain how you would both handle the situation where you were df. This alone gives you pause for thought and maybe you'd like to let things ride for now until you feel able to discuss things with a cool head and a firm researched grasp of the information.
5 - You love her. Your feelings towards her are not altered. You are grateful that she loves you enough to confront this conflict of opinions. You would like to let her know she is still your awesome wife no matter what is said or what is the outcome of choices made and you won't allow anything in the world to drive a wedge between that committment you have made to her and if anyone tried you'd fight for her honour (discuss and allow her a chance to reciprocate - allow her to voice her committment to you - hopefully this insurance will make you closer and make it tougher for some idiot elder to try the split up routine.)
6 - You are not certain what tomorrow may bring but whatever it is you want to spend it by her side come what may.
I'm no expert mind you - do you have a best friend who isn't JW who you can bounce ( non-alcohol induced:D ) ideas off ?
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Lozhasleft
I havent got any better advice to offer but I just wanted to say that its truly awful that the WTBS put families into these dreadful situations isnt it? My heart goes out to you. I do hope you find a way to 'reach' your wife.
Loz x
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00DAD
You say your wife "is a very good woman that loves truthfulness". Then be truthful with her. But be kind and gentle too! She'll probably get upset at first, but be patient. Truth will out. Tell her you love her. Tell her you have something very important to tell her and that you need to talk, alone! Be kind, but be firm.
On the other hand, if your wife actually will not talk to you without an elder present, then--I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but--your marriage is over. Been there done that.
Either way, YOU ABSOLUTELY MUST NOT ALLOW THE ELDERS TO BE INVOLVED. Regardless of WT indoctrination and "teaching" that the elders are "spiritual counselors" there to help, the exact opposite is true. Involving the elders is the worst possible thing you could do. I did and now I am disfellowshipped.
Simply put, it's none of their business. This is between you and your wife. Man up. WWJD?