How to convince someone to question the authority of the WT

LanaMich19

I need help. I have someone in my family that is a JW and she has engaged me in conversation. For the record, I consider myself an evangelical Christian. After some debate and research, I backed out of a verse by verse debate and switched the convo to get on some common ground, asking if she believe the Bible was the inspired Word of God. This is where I left off. What I'd like to do it to get to the punch and get her to question the authority of WT. But I'm also open to suggestions. How did you get convinced that JW was a cult?? This woman is highly educated and I would consider an intellect.

Terry

I would say the answer is the same as asking: How do we get YOU to question the authority of the bible?

Facts will not appeal to you emotionally.

What could over ride your sense of profound attachment regardless of counterfactual evidence?

You see the problem better now?

MrFreeze

If she's a true believer, nothing you say will matter. The circular logic they use is astounding. This was a point I always made:

I ask if the WT is inspired by God. If they say yes (they will, or they will have some other crafty wording that says the same thing), then I ask them if that's the case, why has the WT made errors in the past if they are inspired by God. At this point they will say that it's because God is using imperfect men. I give them that point and agree with them (they are certainly correct in saying the WT is run by imperfect men).

Then I ask them if the Bible has any mistakes in it? Did the Bible writers say anything that you could deem as inaccurate? They will say no. When they say no, ask if the people God used to write the Bible were imperfect. They will say something like yes, but they made mistakes and they were recorded. Point out that true, they did record stories where they made mistakes, but could you deem anything that was written as incorrect? They will say no. Ask them why that was, how come they didn't make mistakes in their writing? They will say they were inspired by God.

At this point, a light should pop on, if they have any critical thinking ability. Say to them, why is it that the Bible writers didn't make any mistakes, but the WT writers do? Doesn't that mean that they aren't inspired by God then? If they aren't inspired by God, aren't they just writing the words of men? What does the Bible say about following men?

These are points I always bring out. A true indoctrinated JW will go in circles over and over and over again. A JW who is a thinker and has a chance of getting out, will remember this conversation.

LanaMich19

Terry-Yes, I see the problem. But lots of people come of out it, so I'm wondering, what was the tipping point? What could someone say that would got the wheels turning?

MrFreeze-Going in circles is frustrating. Before I could ask her if WT is inspired by God (which was my planned 2nd move), she interjected that she makes an effort to read it and understand it from God's view and not to rely on her own knowledge or anyone else's. I was kinda hoping for her to give me a lead in to the WT issue.

Anony Mous

If you're trying to replace their flavor of Christianity with yours, it's not going to work. Also, the WT is not inspired, it's spirit-guided. Look at jwfacts.org for more information on several controversial topics.

How about you become an atheist first and then we'll talk about converting others to it. You've got to attack the basis of their faith in order to get through and since you have the same basis, it's useless, you follow a different organization but the same basis, old boss same as the new boos, all of those Christians organizations has put itself out of shot by claiming inspired divinity.

For me, the only thing that worked was attacking the Bible. Put Leviticus vs. Matthew and let's have a discussion - An Eye For an Eye vs. Turn the Other Cheek, if the Bible does not contradict itself why does Jesus. But Jesus showed love and blah blah blah, Jesus says himself "I did not come to repeal the law but to fulfill it, anyone who teaches against the law is for Gehenna" (or something like that). So tha laww says to kill infidels, gays, prostitutes, children, your wife if she doesn't suck your dick, well I'm following Jesus.

Yes I'm a bit drunk, thank Steve Jobs for Mac OS X Lion autocorrect!

drewcoul

Don't use the word cult.......It turns them off immediately. Instead, ask questions that get them thinking.

One of the things that got me thinking is the concept of the Faithful and Discreet Slave and the Governing Body.

Ask her how long the Faithful and Discreet Slave have been on earth. She'll say that they've always been here. Then ask her why Charles Taze Russell didn't find them and started his own group. Shouldn't he have consulted the FDS?

Or ask how the Governing Body is different from the Pope for the Catholics. She'll probably tell you they don't consider themselves infallible. Then ask why JW's are required to accept everything that comes from the GB as if they're infallible, no matter what the teaching is.

These are two things that got me out for good.

144001

Offer her a bongload.

extractor

Hi Lana,

I sent you a PM. Click the envelope in the upper right if you're logged in.

bigmouth

So Lana, you want to debate whether your strongly held beliefs are better than her strongly held beliefs ?

Why do there continue to be thousands of different 'Christian' religions in the world ?

"This woman is highly educated and I would consider an intellect."

The world is full of highly intelligent people that adhere to beliefs and practices that are viewed as nutty by others. In fact, a highly educated person has a greater capacity to juggle concepts and abstract thought and come up with a complicated belief and then defend it against all attacks.

Perhaps you just don't need to 'save' your relative.

Best wishes.

wobble

The tipping point for every individual is different, and you will not know what it was until it has had its effect and she has left, and she then tells you.

All you can do is keep adding to her Cognitive Dissonance, it is not a comfortable mental state, so keep at it, show the logical fallacies for what they are, show the lies up too, it will work in the end, like water dripping on a stone.

You can return to the WT's status in her belief system, she does beleive they expound truth , ask her when that started ? they have rejected their own "truth" so many times over the years, when did it become wholly "the truth" ? is it now? if not, what does she struggle with ?

How to convince someone to question the authority of the WT

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