How to convince someone to question the authority of the WT

by LanaMich19 45 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Joey Jo-Jo

  Its best to build a rapport but if its just a quick encounter you can ask these questions that have not to do with doctrine but will show you that they are a controlling cult.

  Ask these question, play along but dont let them change the subject.

  (so you seem interested)a) Is the bible your source?b) What do I have to do become a jw? correct answer - a) the bible companied with publications released by the Watchtower Bible & Track Society (headquarters). b) follow their doctrine, become a non-baptised publisher, attend meetings and do verbal discourses at the hall.

  What occurs if I dont follow 1 of these? correct answer- you can not be baptised

  Once baptised, I decide to change religion, what happens? Correct answer you are shunned by family and friends in the cult, if you attend meetings you are not allow to comment or have any duties at the hall. (Dont let them give "this is the one true religion", make sure you get them to answer the question directly) IF they say you are free to leave ask them the question again and make it crystal clear that you are referring to someone quiting and not simple a person who decided not to attend meetings.

  And if I join, do I have a)cut friendship with non-members, b) and quit smoking? correct answer a) you are encourage to associated with people only in the "truth", this includes family, however your progress in the JW ladder depends on what elders think of you, non believers are automatically classified as bad associations and you can not have associations at all with ex-jw's-doing so can get you kicked out and dead to them. b) yes, smoking is not allowed at all.

  Is your religion considered to be controversial by anyone? correct answer - (they may not be aware) pedophilia, shunning, blood doctrine/blood fraction doctrine, false prophecies, bible contradictions, lies.

  How do you feel about ex-jw's? and have you spoken to an ex-jw and asked them why they left the religion? Does your religion pose any resctritions regarding ex-members? correct answer they can not speak with ex-jw's, they are not allowed to read or listen to material made by ex-jw's

  Can you summarise what your religion believe? correct answer - jw is the one true religion, "God wants us to preached to the world our truth so they are saved", satan is the current ruler, the end is very near and Jesus will bring judgment to all- the good will stay alive and have eternal life-the dead will be ressurected and have eternal life-all on planet earth, only 144,000 who drank the wine and ate the breaded during Jesus commemoration are considered the annoited and will go to heaven. (there are more points but these are most fundamental, if they can not summarise this they are hiding something, usually a controlling cult can not be upfront with their beliefs)

  What are the 3 things you dislike about this religion? correct answer They are not allowed to say negative things about the religion during witnessing, usually its between very close friends.

  These questions should give you a good idea of ANY religion being a cult.
• 

  ShadesofGrey

  http://4witness.org/jehovahs_witness/jw_witness.php

  Very helpful link!

  What happened for me in a nutshell, was that I didn't understand how the WT taught Old Earth and creation. I wanted my kids to not be confused about that so I did some research on evolution, old earth, and young earth. In the process I read Creation.com magazine and several books by Michael Oard. I am now more Young Earth Creationist than any other group, though my beliefs don't fit in a box. I began to see that these Christians were bringing glory to God and turning atheists into believers. Surely God doesn't have just one approved religion, the Jehovah's Witnesses, whose evolution materials are so inferior as to be laughable... so I became open to the idea that Christians could be God's people and I was no longer afraid of them.

  I was not attending meetings and so my mom was reallly trying to convince me to come back. I decide to try and pick up a Watchtower. The article was comparing our loyalty/obedience to the "faithful and discreet slave" as the Israelites loyalty/obedience to Moses. Moses? Who replaced Moses? I asked a pastor I knew from a facebook creation page. Does a man or group of men lead God's people today? His answer was only Jesus Christ leads God's people today. I knew from my study of the scriptures that Jesus is the one mediator between God and men. I also knew that Jesus is called the Greater Moses. The "faithful and dicreet slave" were trying to take Jesus' position!!! I threw the WT away in anger and vowed to never listen to men again. I would only listen to Christ.

  From that moment on my life changed. I became joyful and free. I understood unconditional love for the first time in my life. I was more patient. I started singing as I went about the house. My heart was singing with the Spirit of Christ. I started studying my Bible and simply taking God at his word as the Young Earth Creationism teaches me to do. Wow. I can understand it now! I started looking at Christian websites to get answers to questions and they agreed with what I was learning.I read 1 John in the Living Bible and immediately accepted the Godhead. I understood that God can be three different people and also in all of our hearts. He is an all-powerful spirit!

  The persecution started, even though as far as my friends and family knew, nothing had changed. They sent me emails warning that my children and I would die in the Great Tribulation. My best friend walked out on me, calling me stiff-necked and proud, which couldn't be further from the truth. When I asked her to open her Bible she refused! But, something else happened too... my prayers were answered. Really answered. Obviously, immediately. Praise God for his loyalty!

  Love, Joy, Peace,

  SOG
• 

  Mad Sweeney

  Ask her: In what way is Jesus Christ personally your king right now? What do you do to show him fealty on a regular basis?

  Her answer is likely to be that he leads "the organization" or "the faithful and discreet slave" and that she "goes out in service and attends meetings." These are both wrong, of course, but that's less important than the fact that she didn't even answer your question. You asked how he is personally HER king and she answers with his supposed relationship to the Watchtower cult. You asked what SHE DOES to show HIM and she answers with how she participates in activities of the Watchtower cult.

  This kind of thing is common among Jehovah's Witnesses. As a Christian, you are familiar with Paul's illustration of putting on the "new personality?" Cults like the Watchtower create a personality that subsumes the real person so that even when asked about what they do or feel or think they will very often relate those behaviors, thoughts, and emotions through the cult somehow.

  This is what makes nugget's suggestion in this thread so useful. "If you weren't a Jehovah's Witness, what do you think you would be doing right now?" It forces them to think in a way that they rarely allow themselves to think.
• 

  Ding

  @ShadesofGrey, I sent you a PM.

  @MadSweeney, you make some great points about getting JWs to think outside the cult mindset. The WTS does everything it can to make sure that JWs only see the world through the GB's prism.
• 

  jonathan dough

  This woman is highly educated and I would consider an intellect.

  Highly unlikely. If she's that intelligent and actually studying the arguments objectively she wouldn't have remained a JW all this time.

  Also, scripturally their positions cannot be defended. They can, and have, been proven wrong so many ways it has become a running joke among those who know better.

  Begin with building blocks to crack her armour. The destruction of Jerusalem in 607 is a good place to start. To a mathematical certainty they don't have a leg to stand on. Look here: http://144000.110mb.com/607/index.html

  The deception perpetuated in their "Should You Believe in the Trinity" pamphlet is also good grounds for exposing them for what they really are. You can easily prove to her that it is impossible for Jesus to have been just a man, nothing more. It is easy to catch them in lie after lie and mounds of deceptive logic: Look here: http://144000.110mb.com/trinity/index.html

  The fallacy of their multiple salvation plans, the impossibility of only 144,000 going to heaven, that all men are acquitted at death of sin and that we are not judged for our deeds in this life, plus much, much, more are fertile grounds for having an intelligent conversation with her, unless she is deceiving herself. There is a correct and Biblical answer to every single point they raise. She is not intelligent. She just has you fooled. Look here:
  http://144000.110mb.com/144000/index.html
  
  If you still are stumped, hundreds of web sites are devoted to debunking this false and dangerous religion. Here is a convenient directory. Also, JWfacts.com is recommended. http://144000.110mb.com/directory/jehovahs_witnesses_directory_beliefs.html
  
  
  As for challenging authority if you have sound reasons, that is a directive, an order, not an option. 1 Thess. 5:21 orders believers to "test all things." While she might claim that she tested all things before joining this religion, the directive was aimed at current Christians, not those who were thinking of converting, and therefore is an ongoing mandate. If we don't, how can we protect ourselves from false prophets and false teachers. Paul challenged those in Jerusalem. He also chastized Peter.

  She might be brainwashed beyond help. In that case, stomp the dust off your feet. You might consider engaging in an email conversation with here and make her respond in writing. That way you have time to make your arguments and can rely on other authority. You can easily prove to her, if she is an objective, intelligent person, that Christ was, and is, God as that term is meant in mainstream Christianity.

  Once she sees how she has been deceived, it might get her to think critically.
• 

  jonathan dough

  Ask her how Jesus could have chosen the WBTS in 1919 if the organization's teachings were rooted in the occult and taught into the 1920s?

  Anyone considering joining the religion of the Jehovah's Witnesses, or current members of this group, are generally unfamiliar with its early history, the beliefs and practices of its founder Charles Taze Russell and to a lesser extent Joseph F. Rutherford. The Watchtower Society goes to great lengths to distance itself from Russell and his teachings as they are now considered anathema, and bizarre. The foundational tenets of the faith are so different from today's religion that the Russell-era organization is virtually unrecognizable.
  
  Much of the old doctrine has been thrown out and would be condemned as seeped in the occult and clearly pagan today, and for good reason, because such conduct and beliefs are unscriptural and prohibited. Harsh words, no doubt, but facts speak for themselves and explain to a great extent some of today's questionable doctrine and practices. Try as the Jehovah's Witnesses do, there is no escaping their occult pagan past. Potential converts are forewarned and are advised to study these issues carefully. Below are numerous websites devoted to exposing the Jehovah's Witnesses' deep connection with the occult and its pagan origins.
  
  This documented historical connection with the occult is evident in several ways. Russell relied heavily on astrological predictions and signs of the zodiac. Rutherford believed that Jehovah most likely resided in the Pleiades constellation. Many of Rutherford and Russell's false predictions were calculated based on alignment and measurement of ancient Egyptian pyramids relying in essence on the powers of the occult. A small pyramid was erected next to Russell's grave as a memorial to his life and work. The satanic All-Seeing Eye of occult worship adorns Russell's memorial pyramid, and early Watchtower publications incorporate Masonic symbolism to a great degree. Furthermore, the Divine Plan of the Ages, an early Watchtower book, is adorned with the Winged Sun Disc, an Egyptian religious symbol of pagan origins and false worship.
  
  The Jehovahs Witnesses can run from their occult past, but they can't hide. Nor can they sweep these truths under the rug of their New Light Doctrine. Due to such an un-biblical foundation that continued well into the 1920s, it is inconceivable that Jesus Christ chose the Jehovah's Witnesses and the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society as their sole representatives on earth due to the purity of their faith.

  http://144000.110mb.com/directory/occult_jehovahs_witnesses.html

  Here are many sites devoted to strategies for responding to JWs.

  http://144000.110mb.com/directory/jehovahswitnesses_strategies.html
• 

  LanaMich19

  Thanks jonathon dough. I only say she's an intellectual b/c she is a PhD (2 doctorates) and speaks 5 languages. She's been around the world. But I get what you are saying. Thanks for the additional info. I'll add it to my arsenal.
• 

  Resistance is Futile

  Was she born into the religion, or did she join after getting her education?
• 

  Band on the Run

  I don't think a head on debate on the merits of JWs accomplishes much. I would try to be subtle. Ask if she believes the Bible can be understood. Has she ever read a Bible book in consecutive verses? Perhaps she would be willing to read the text of the NWT with you --without Witness literature. God should make his Word clear to humans. Why would God write in code?

  Anything that challenges her intellectually. There must be a way to make her more skeptical without even touching the Bible. Since you are evangelical, ask if senses Christ's presence in her life.

  I am old enough to recall the Patty Hearst kidnapping. My own bro became a Maoist and was brainwashed. Nothing seems to click for years. Her parents had the best deprogrammers and it took months for her to snap out of it. The Stockholm Syndrome. My brother left the Maoist movement after decades and returned to normal. I think it is sowing seeds now that may be reaped in the future. God has his own timetable. She believes in Jesus (sort of) in good faith. I can't imagine God holding it against her.
• 

  ShadesofGrey

  Good points Band. We mustn't get impatient to "win". This person is in God's hands and his love, mercy, justice and timing are perfect.

  Lana, Many JWs will "reason" there way through the Bible, trying to make God's Word and God himself "logical", and have an air of intellectual superiority over Christians, thinking that Christian doctrine just doesn't make sense. That is why a JW takes one small step at a time, and they must realize that God is a spirit. What does that mean? To worship in Spirit? After accepting Christ I understood when I read Romans chapter 8 and the book of 1 John. Oh, and I had to read them in an easier translation. The Bible the JWs use, the New World Translation, turns it all to gobbly gook. I get so frustrated. I will understand something so clearly, go to show it to my husband in his NWT and it makes no sense!!!

  Here is another link that you might be encouraged by:

  http://www.bwce.org/church_ministry.html

  Your Sister, SOG