Absolute knowledge vs. Relativism

by Vidqun 44 Replies latest watchtower bible

ziddina

" Being an atheist is also a leap of faith, and that goes for the evolutionists too. I believe in absolute truth as found in the Bible. ...."
Ah, HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!
Excuse me - I'll try to address a few of your comments, after I get my breath back and can stop laughing long enough to crawl back up onto my chair...
Sooooooo..... If you believe that the bible has "absolute truth", then how in the heck was there "light" on the "first day" of "creation", but the SUN apparently didn't "exist" until the FOURTH "creative day"?????
If you believe that the bible has "absolute truth", then do you still believe the BRONZE-AGE SUPERSTITION that the sun REVOLVES AROUND THE EARTH???
If you believe that the bible has "absolute truth", then do you still believe the BRONZE-AGE SUPERSTITION that the earth is FLAT - but circular???
If you believe that the bible has "absolute truth", then do you still believe the BRONZE-AGE SUPERSTITION that the EARTH existed BEFORE THE SUN CAME TO BE????
And DUUUUUUDE, that's just the errors, mistakes, superstitions and mythology in the bible's FIRST CHAPTER... It gets worse from that point, on...!!
Oh, just a couple more questions....
Why on earth are you worshipping a BRONZE-AGE, MIDDLE-EASTERN MALE VOLCANO "god"????
You don't know very much about the origins of the bible, do you?????
Zid
ziddina

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhGS9sGNC2o&feature=autoplay&list=PLD98F2D6D3C10D120&lf=plpp_play_all&playnext=4
Larsinger58

EntirelyPossible: Fulfilled, not made up, Lars.
Tee hee. Spiritual things are nonsense to the nonspiritual, so I don't think I will convince you of anything But just in passing, Jehovah must have anticipated this and so provided a miraculous sign that would appear to the elect so they would have more than just the Bible or faith. This sign is a literal image in the clouds that can be photographed. It appeared to a skyscape photographer so I could have a good image of it; a physical image. Bottom line--anybody can claim anything they saw or envisioned but delusions can't be photographed. So the photograph of the image which is seen by the other elect provides a higher level of confirmation of God's existence. Further, this sign was prophesied to appear in the context of the 2nd coming. So, sorry, EP, this is real and thinking I'm just making this up is your logistical defense mechanism.
All I can say is that God appears to the elect first before he moves on to proving himself to the rest of the world at Armageddon. I'm one of the lucky early ones who get an advanced peek at our Creator. Guess you'll have to wait until Armageddon if none of this makes sense to you. See Matthew 24:29-30.
Cheerio.
LS
dgp

Me, I'm waiting.
Vidqun

No, Zid, I am afraid it's you that don't know much about the origins of the Bible. Gen. 1:1: "In the beginning God created the heavens (sun, moon, and stars) and the earth." From an earthly observer light would have appeared on earth on day three. Remember now, the sun, moon, and stars have already created. And yes, this is not a literal day (cf. Gen. 2:4). On the fourth day "luminaries" appeared. Remember, these are the ones that have been created in v. 1. The writer uses the word "make" and not "create" as v. 1. There's a difference.
About the earth. Try these two scriptures. "he is stretching the north over the empty place, Hanging the earth upon nothing" (Job 26:7). "There is One dwelling above the circle of the earth..." Not bad for men living thousands of years ago. No, the Bible is not a scientific text book, but it doesn't do too badly in that area. E.g. The congregator discusses the water cycle in Ecc. 1:7. Not bad for a primitive man!
What about the prophecies of Dan. 4 and Dan. 7. These predict the rise of empires, i.e., Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, and Rome. And if you look carefully, you'll notice where we fit in. We are part of the feet and toes of iron and clay. And you don't have to be a believer to know that this image is going to fall down, "and not even the king or the kings men would be able to put it together again." This is good going, even for a supposedly Maccabean Jew, who is a lier and a fraudster, according to modern scholars.
Let's go over to Jerusalem and the Romans. Jesus predicted that the Romans would surround and destroy Jerusalem. This he did approximately 40 years before the destruction took place (cf. Luk. 21:20-24). Here he referred to Daniel's prophecy of the seventy weeks (Dan. 9:27). Here he refuted Maccabean interpretation of Daniel, which modern scholars cling to.
I can go on about the laws. One must not covet your neighbour's wife or possesions. Don't murder. Don't steal. Treat animals with kindness. Stick to your marriage mate. Don't sleep around, etc. But somehow, I don't think these arguments will appeal to the majority. Like Lars said, this is where faith comes in.
talesin

Finally, those of us who know God a little more personally knows he likes playing games with people who think they are smart and those deceived by Satan.
Doncha just love God?
He is SOOO loving .... in fact, he is SO loving, that he likes to toy with people, and works hand-in-hand with Satan. I guess it amuses 'him'.
tal
wobble

Dear Vidqun,
May I respectfully suggest you do a little digging on here, it is what I did when still a JW, and I found that , though I had tremendous knowledge of what the Bible says, I knew very little more than that.
For example, for many years I quoted the scripture about the "circle of the earth " then I read an explosive thread entitled "A sphere is not a circle" by a poster of that name I believe, I read Leolaia's and others posts on Daniel and Bible prophecy, I was educated by these wonderful people, I learned the truth.
Please do some reading, by using the search button above, and come back to us if you do not agree with the aforementioned posters, all your points have been dealt with.
Thank you.
Vidqun

(615b)
???????? (m®µûgâ) compass. Occurs only in Isa 44:13.
In Job 26:10 the Creator has "compassed the waters with bounds" (Kiv), or according to the more literal rendering of the RSV, "He has described a circle upon the face of the waters." This may mean the establishment of a boundary in the distance as the NEB, "He has fixed the horizon," or at the shore (cf. Job 38:8, 11). This is also the thought found in the use of the noun in Prov 8:27, "He set a compass upon the face of the depth" (KJV), which the NEB renders, "He girdled the ocean with the horizon."
Job 22:14 (KJV) declares that God "walketh in the circuit of heaven"; the "vault" of heaven is the expression used by the RSV, NAB, and NEB. The JB translates, "He prowls on the rim of the heavens."
Isaiah 40:22 (KJV) asserts that the Creator sits upon the "circle of the earth" a rendering retained by the ASV, RSV, and JB. The NAB has, "He sits enthroned above the vault of the earth," which the NEB amplifies as the "vaulted roof of the earth." NIV: "He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth." The poets of the OT describe their universe phenomenologically, i.e. as it appears to them standing on the earth and looking above and about. This perspective differs from that of modern scientific thought, which assumes a perspective beyond the earth. Both are accurate and useful according to their own perspectives.

Some have held that Isa 40:22 implies the sphericity of the earth. It may, but it may refer only to the Lord enthroned above the earth with its obviously circular horizon. Note the remarkable concept given in Job 26:7.
This is a quote from Harris' Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament. Take note: "Both are accurate according to their own perspectives." In connection with Is. 40:22, I imply sphericity. That's my privilege. Like I said, to some a leap of faith. To me, grab and hold on to what is fine. If one looks at the total picture, e.g., historicity, geographic accuracy, origin of races, practicle application, candor, the integrity of witnesses,the Bible has a lot to offer. If you reject it, you will be poorer for it.
Vidqun

Sorry, that one didn’t work too well. Let’s try again:
(615b) (me?ûgâ) compass. Occurs only in Isa 44:13.
In Job 26:10 the Creator has "compassed the waters with bounds" (Kiv), or according to the more literal rendering of the RSV, "He has described a circle upon the face of the waters." This may mean the establishment of a boundary in the distance as the NEB, "He has fixed the horizon," or at the shore (cf. Job 38:8, 11). This is also the thought found in the use of the noun in Prov 8:27, "He set a compass upon the face of the depth" (KJV), which the NEB renders, "He girdled the ocean with the horizon."
Job 22:14 (KJV) declares that God "walketh in the circuit of heaven"; the "vault" of heaven is the expression used by the RSV, NAB, and NEB. The JB translates, "He prowls on the rim of the heavens."
Isaiah 40:22 (KJV) asserts that the Creator sits upon the "circle of the earth", a rendering retained by the ASV, RSV, and JB. The NAB has, "He sits enthroned above the vault of the earth," which the NEB amplifies as the "vaulted roof of the earth." NIV: "He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth." The poets of the OT describe their universe phenomenologically, i.e. as it appears to them standing on the earth and looking above and about. This perspective differs from that of modern scientific thought, which assumes a perspective beyond the earth. Both are accurate and useful according to their own perspectives.
Some have held that Isa 40:22 implies the sphericity of the earth. It may, but it may refer only to the Lord enthroned above the earth with its obviously circular horizon. Note the remarkable concept given in Job 26:7.
This quote has been taken from Harris’ Theologocial Wordbook of the Old Testament. Take note: “Both are accurate and useful according to their own perspectives.” In connection with Is. 40:22, I go for sphericity. That’s my privilege. Likle I said, to some a leap of faith, to some, grab and hold fast to what is fine. If one looks at the total picture, e.g. historicity, geographic accuracy, origin of races, practicle application, candor, the integrity of the witnesses, the Bible has a lot to offer. If you reject it, you will be poorer for it.
EntirelyPossible

Spiritual things are nonsense to the nonspiritual, so I don't think I will convince you of anything
Agreed. But, you see, you keep using math. Math doesn't work on faith. Just stick to "God told me" and your nonsense will make much more sense.

Absolute knowledge vs. Relativism

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