While we wait for eternal destruction, anyone here would prefer the Samsung Galaxy Tab over an iPad?
Absolute knowledge vs. Relativism
by Vidqun 44 Replies latest watchtower bible
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EntirelyPossible
I am picking my 10.1 Galaxy Tab later today. I will not shackly myself to apple.
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TheUbermensch
Vidqun, did you just start this Absolute knowledge vs. Relativism thread to argue about the existence of God? We have a thread going for that, it's been going. Absolute knowledge vs. Relativism does not have anything to do with God. You can not argue for Absolute knowledge with the Bible. I wouldn't argue for Relativism with Aesop's Fables. You didn't address my post whatsoever, a post that logically refuted your original proposition. You didn't even answer me. Please don't start another infuriating thread concerning the existence of God by using a false premise, ask for answers, and then IGNORE those answers. If you want to speak on the subject of Absolute knowledge and Relativism that's perfectly fine, but don't argue for either side by use of a story book that has yet to be proven true.
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Vidqun
Sorry Ubermensch, I have been busy, and did not focus on all the posts (I am quite new at this as you might have gathered). I started the post so that I can explain what I believe. Somebody asked. It was not on topic where we were, so I started a new thread. I like your example of gravity. Gravity and all the natural laws are in my mind good examples of absolute truth. Even a primitive person will know, if you dive off a cliff, you will do serious damage to yourself.
I believe that you can either believe in absolute truth or relativism. If you go for relativism, anything goes. You can do what you want, and will not be held accountable, because you can adjust the truth to suit your needs. Very dangerous indeed. This can lead to trouble.
Do you blame the Bible for all those things you mentioned? I'll rather blame the people perpetrating those deeds. Nothing to do with the Bible. If you follow Biblical principles, you will not go down that path. What I mean by the Bible being a powerful influence, take the Bible away and Western civilization would have gone down a different path.
I believe the Creator has absolute truth, and that He has incorporated some of this in His Book the Bible. One must just look for it. And if you find and apply it, it will go well with you (Prov. 2:1-5).
One of the reasons why I am interested in Bible prophecy is that the worldly governents are going to be destroyed. These must make way for God's kingdom (Dan 2:44, 45). When God does this, the survivors will understand what absolute truth is all about (cf. Hab. 2:14). Daniel asked, “what will be the final part of these things?” (cf. Dan. 12:8) The reference to “after(wards)” does not necessarily point to a chronological end, but “to show how history will culminate, thus its outcome” (cf. Dan. 2:28; TDOT, vol. I, p. 212). Such a biblical concept is not far-fetched at all. A similar view is held by political economist and author, Francis Fukuyama. In his 1992 book The End of History and the Last Man, he wrote: “What we may be witnessing is not just the end of the Cold War, or the passing of a particular period of post-war history, but the end of history as such: that is, the end point of mankind’s ideological evolution and the universalization of Western liberal democracy as the final form of human government.” This accords with what I have learnt from Bible prophecy.
Thanks EntirelyPossible for the advice. I know, one must live by faith, and not by sight. But it is always been a serious shortcoming of mine to try and explain things, to look for the logical explanation. And as I have found out, that's not always possible.
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Twitch
All I can say is that God appears to the elect first before he moves on to proving himself to the rest of the world at Armageddon. I'm one of the lucky early ones who get an advanced peek at our Creator.
Really? Is it anything like what Aguest sees/hears? What name do you call it? If it's the same, you guys might actually be onto something, you know...
Guess you'll have to wait until Armageddon if none of this makes sense to you.
Been waiting 20 years now, what's the holdup? I can't wait to have it all make sense to me....lmao
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TheClarinetist
It appeared to a skyscape photographer so I could have a good image of it; a physical image.
And where is this image? Setting aside for now the fact that photographs are extremely easy to doctor and that our minds notice patterns that aren't really there (especially in clouds), of course.
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ziddina
"In the beginning God created the heavens (sun, moon, and stars) and the earth." From an earthly observer light would have appeared on earth on day three. ..."
No, that's a PROLOGUE - the storyteller is preparing his audience for the Middle-Eastern myth that he's about to spin for them, with a preparatory overview ...
By your line of logic, if you take that very first statement LITERALLY, that would mean that the whole shebang happened all at once, which according to the steps carefully laid out by the Middle-Eastern storyteller in his subsequent comments, isn't the case...
And then the mythology masquerading as "absolute truth" - er, "knowledge"- goes on...
Aaccording to your "absolute truth/knowledge" book, "Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness covered the surface of the watery depths, and the spirit of [the 3,500-year-old-Middle-Eastern-male-sheepherders'-volcano-'god'] was hovering over the surface of the waters..."
[face/palm slap...]
Ah, lemme point out a VERY obvious problem with this second verse...
The storyteller knows ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about the very long and very SIGNIFICANT "molten" period of the earth's formation...
Well, how could he? He's just a primitive, ignorant, Bronze-Age sheepherder sitting around scratching his butt and picking his fleas, trying to distract his audience from the heat and the fleas and the dust and the mosquitoes - and the SMELL - while hanging around the well or the oasis...
This book fails on its very first page..
Then your NEXT comment:
"Remember now, the sun, moon, and stars have already created. And yes, this is not a literal day (cf. Gen. 2:4). On the fourth day "luminaries" appeared. Remember, these are the ones that have been created in v. 1. The writer uses the word "make" and not "create" as v. 1. There's a difference....."
REALLY??? So, first it's literal and suddenly it's symbolic...
And for SOME reason, you are SUDDENLY ignoring what your very own "absolute truth" book says, in verses 14 through 19 - where it describes - IN DETAIL - the CREATION of the SUN, MOON and STARS - on the FOURTH creative day...
"Then 'god' said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to separate the day from the night. They will serve as signs for festivals and for days and yeas They will be lights in the expanse of the sky to provide light on the earth". And it was so. [According to the Bronze-Age sheepherder, that is...] 'god' made the two great lights - the greater light to have dominion over the day and the lesser light to have dominion over the night - as well as the stars. 'god' placed them in the expanse of the sky to provide light on the earth, to dominate the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And 'god' saw that it was good. Evening came, and then morning:
THE FOURTH DAY .".....
Apparently YOU don't even know your own bible very well - and it's painfully obvious that you SURE don't know ANYTHING about GEOLOGY or ASTRONOMY!!!
And while we're on the subject of creation myths...
Here's a Sumerian creation myth - which, by the way, PRECEEDED the writing of the bible by AT LEAST A THOUSAND YEARS...
"In the first days when everything needed was brought into being,
In the first days when everything needed was properly nourished, When bread was baked in the shrines of the land,
And bread was tasted in the homes of the land, When heaven had moved away from the earth,
And earth had separated from heaven,
And the name of man was fixed; ..."Now, notice the SIMILARITIES to the MUCH LATER 'creation' myth of the bible!!
The PROLOGUE is STRIKINGLY SIMILAR, and it ALSO mentions the "separation" of the "expanse" between the waters, creating 'sky' - as in verses 6-8...
"Then 'god' said, "Let there be an expanse between the waters, separating water from water". So 'god' made the expanse and separated the water under the expanse from the water above the expanse. And it was so. [According to the Bronze-Age sheepherder, that is...] 'god' called the expanse "sky". Evening came, and then morning; the second day."
And I'm not going to waste any more time showing you the flaws in this collection of Middle-Eastern myths written about a Johnny-Come-Lately Middle-Eastern male volcano 'god', because I'm not here to 'convert' you to any so-called 'belief' system... Unlike YOUR agenda, that is...
Were you even aware that the bible is only around 3,500 years old? And that several of the Egyptian pyramids, and a religious Egyptian text written on the walls of one of those pyramid tombs are a THOUSAND years older than the bible? And that STONEHENGE is AT LEAST 1,500 years OLDER?? As are the cave paintings in southern France, the temples on the island of Malta, the Sumerian mythology, the temple at Göbekli Tepe in Turkey, the various "venus" figurines like the "Venus of Willendorf" approximately TWENTY-FOUR THOUSAND YEARS OLD, and the grandmammy of them ALL, the "Berekhat Ram" figurine - AT LEAST TWO HUNDRED THOUSAND YEARS OLD and possibly much, much older...
The bible's just a new-fangled thang compared to all these OLDER FAITHS and BELIEF SYSTEMS!!
That which came LAST, cannot be from that which came FIRST...
Zid
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TheUbermensch
Yes Vidqun, I do blame the Bible for most horrible things that have happened.
Holy Wars, Crusades, genocide, I don't only blame the Bible I blame religion. Most people say "but it was people who did it", yes, but if the Bible never existed it would have never happened.
People's potential have also been dumbed down by religion. Rather than contributing to science, art, or music, they are too busy at the seminary, or church.
Religion is resonsible for prejudice, rascism, and massacring of thousands.
Even the Bible chronicles these occurrences, and gives rules to the people of God, like Leviticus 20:13, which tells us to kill all known homosexuals.
Most everything bad that happens can be blamed on God.
He knows all
He is all powerful
He is perfectly good
Evil exists.
This is logically impossible, and thus there is something wrong with that statement.
There many proofs against theism, including the Logical Problem of Evil and the Evidential Problem of Evil.
I suggest you check out the Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy.
http://www.iep.utm.edu/atheism/
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PSacramento
For US humans, everything seems to be relative.
Probably because we KNOW things by how we relate to them and they to Us and the universe that we know.
We just have to be open to accepting that ALL we know is NOT all that there is to know.
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dgp
Entirely Possible: I agree. Apple is overpriced and then you're in a cage. The Galaxy Tab seems the much better option.