Paul was friends with Albert Hoffman...
Paul's Out-Of-Body Experience - How did we Miss This?
by wordfamine.com 37 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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AGuest
Sorry, Aguest, but I'm beyond the age that interests you.
Apparently, not, dear 144 (peace to you!). My interests fall in the "over 60" category, these days. Maturity "thrills" me. The last time they were aimed at 13-14... which is apparently about how old you are... I was... well, 13-14. The only thing that thrilled me then was David sunflower seeds and Charms dual-flavored lollipops. Apple/lemon, to be exact.
For your information, 13 and 14 year olds are incapable under the law of consenting to sexual intercourse.
Although that depends on where you're talking about... it has nothing to do with this discussion. Nor did your immature, puerile comment. I mean, "fartgas"? Seriously? In this particular thread?
Get yourself a lawyer!
Nahhh, I'll pass. My own JD's been serving me quite well these days and there are no claims against me, so....
C'mon, dear 144... grow up. There's a place and time for infantality. This thread wasn't it, at least not how you brought it.
Again, peace to you... truly. I have nothing against YOU - just against the tack you took here. Totally unnecessary and completely immature.
YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,
SA
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144001
My own JD's been serving me quite well these days and there are no claims against me, so....
"JD" in the possessive form? Your comment is unintelligible.
C'mon, dear 144... grow up. There's a place and time for infantality. This thread wasn't it, at least not how you brought it.
That's "infantility," Ms. JD. It's always good to be able to spell the disparaging words you spew at others.
Again, peace to you... truly. I have nothing against YOU - just against the tack you took here. Totally unnecessary and completely immature.
And I have nothing against you either, notwithstanding your sophomoric effort to disparage me, and your poor spelling and grammar. I make a living off of conflict, so I'm accustomed to being the subject of personal attacks.
Really, I was simply trying to let off some steam (as opposed to fartgas) last night, after a very stressful day. I should have known that my words, which were obviously in jest, would somehow be viewed by the up tight, puritanical crowd and that they would foment your childish personal attack.
YOUR servant and a slave of Christ, SA
I am not your master, you are not my servant. I am not a slave to your "Christ"; I have escaped the bondage of man's religions, and will remain free, for the remainder of my life. Best of luck to you . . .
Cheers!
The Ultimate Annointed One, 144001!
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Band on the Run
Honolulu! Hawaii-Five-O? It does have the ambience of the Holy Land.
Paul wrote that he did not know whether he was in body or out of body. He had the actual experience. The Wt always knows these pesky little details that are not in the Bible by any stretch of the imagination. Somehow thousands of years later, more is known than Paul knew. Paul was honest. Sometimes I get in a mood that why can't there be certainty? Some clarity. Clarity must be genuine to work. This is smoke and mirrors.
I know that modern Protestant belief is that you die, then are resurrected bodily at the Second Coming. There are no deceased people zooming around in heaven with harps. I was surprised to hear the change. We can't quantify consciousness/spirituality. In a strictly biological process, our atoms reunite throughout the universe. I fear losing consciousness. It kept me alive through unbelievable facial pain. Since I will not exist, it is not rational.
I only realized how they waro the Bible passages as an adult. There certainty and use of secular sources impressed me as a child. Paul wrote of the inexpressable. JWs find nothing under the sun to be inexpressable.
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tec
Paul wrote that he did not know whether he was in body or out of body. He had the actual experience.
If we're talking about the same thing; Paul was describing someone else's ex perience. Not his own.2Corinthians 12:2
I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know - God knows.
If we are talking about a different passage, then my mistake.
Peace,
Tammy
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AGuest
"JD" in the possessive form? Your comment is unintelligible.
Yes, my JD (juris doctorate), dear 144 (again, peace to you!). The one *I* have...
That's "infantility," Ms. JD. It's always good to be able to spell the disparaging words you spew at others.
It is, and my apology for the misspell (heck, even doctors make spelling errors!); however, while this is true (desirabilty of good spelling), I'm not surprised that you are familiar with the correct form as you probably had to look it up the first time someone brought it to your attention... for similar behavior...
And I have nothing against you either, notwithstanding your sophomoric effort to disparage me, and your poor spelling and grammar.
Me disparage YOU? I only pointed out the truth (which was quite obvious, actually) after YOU attempted to disparage the topic of the thread so immaturely. So, here, take your little "stone" back, dear one (SA tosses a pebble 144's way).
I make a living off of conflict, so I'm accustomed to being the subject of personal attacks.
Ahhhh... yes, that would explain the... ummmm... "tone" of it. Doesn't quite explain the puerility, though... or your inability to overcome reacting as you would under your USUAL circumstances when no one is attacking YOU (which was the case with the thread - not a personal attack against you... or anyone else... at all, so...)...
Really, I was simply trying to let off some steam (as opposed to fartgas) last night, after a very stressful day.
Again, ahhh. Makes sense... sort of. I mean, I don't get how the topic deserved YOUR sarcasm - again, no one here attacked you and/or was/is responsible for your stress. But, given the "age" you apparently "act," even outside of work, yeah, I can see how almost any topic here would have gotten such attention... and comment... from you.
I should have known that my words, which were obviously in jest, would somehow be viewed by the up tight, puritanical crowd and that they would foment your childish personal attack.
They were obviously in jest, dear one - that didn't esacpe me. Nor did I consider them... or you... "uptight". That is a term I would attribute to an adult who takes things too seriously (as you might think me, here). That wasn't the case, here, at ALL. Seriously, it was out of line and childish... and you know it - your response here indicates you have SOME level of maturity... and common sense. So, I get that you now "see" that and this is your way of "apologizing" (i.e., the best you can do and given your line of work, it makes sense). No worries - you should probably "weigh" your stress against your "need" to post comments such as this, sometimes, though. I mean, there's a place and time for everything. This really wasn't the place for your particular comment. There are PLENTY of others that would have been much better suited to it. And I most probably would have laughed right out in such a case. Not here. It was not only out of place... but out of line. Again, I think you see that, now, though.
I am not your master
No, you are not... by any means...
you are not my servant.
To the contrary, dear one; however, that you don't KNOW this doesn't make it untrue...
I am not a slave to your "Christ"
No, you are not. Obviously...
I have escaped the bondage of man's religions, and will remain free, for the remainder of my life.
As have I, both, so we have that in common. Doesn't loosen me from my obligations to you, however, merely as a fellow human being...
Best of luck to you . . . Cheers!
Back at'cha... as well as a wish for peace (which you might need, given your job... and stress)...
The Ultimate Annointed One, 144001!
Unfortunatey, I don't know which number I am but I ASSURE you, the "anointed" number far, FAR more... than 144,000... and one. Although those "from among the sons of Israel" number 144,000... the rest of them, who include a great crowd "out of EVERY nation, tribe, tongue, and people"... are not numbered (by man, anyway). So, I'm not sure you are the ULTIMATE one. But, who knows... the Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies, shows mercy to whomever HE wishes to show it... so you may just end up as such after all! May it be so... if you truly wish it!
Again, peace to you!
YOUR servant (yes, I'm afraid so!)... and a slave of Christ,
SA
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Chalam
" The person the apostle Paul was referring to was not himself. It was John."
The jury is out on that one.
2 Corinthians 12:6-7
English Standard Version (ESV)
6 Though if I should wish to boast, I would not be a fool, for I would be speaking the truth. But I refrain from it, so that no one may think more of me than he sees in me or hears from me. 7 So to keep me from becoming conceited because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to harass me, to keep me from becoming conceited. Paul receieved a thorn in the flesh to keep him humble about the revelations. There is no mention of John getting one. Paul could have well visited heaven when he was stoned to death Acts 14:19 My JW friend gave me a blank expressions when I mentioned "third heaven" so I pointed him to the account in 2 Corinthians 12. JWs miss many verses like this because they have the WT doctrine "the dead know nothing" etc. ringing in their ears. In fact, for most of them, any true revelation they have is taken from them Matthew 13:11-13, Matthew 21:42-44, Matthew 25:28-30 Here's a few more verses they never can grasp.Philippians 1:21-23
English Standard Version (ESV)
21 For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. 22 If I am to live in the flesh, that means fruitful labor for me. Yet which I shall choose I cannot tell. 23 I am hard pressed between the two. My desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better.James 2:26
English Standard Version (ESV)
26 For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.Hebrews 11:4
English Standard Version (ESV)
4 By faith Abel offered to God a more acceptable sacrifice than Cain, through which he was commended as righteous, God commending him by accepting his gifts. And through his faith, though he died, he still speaks.
Ecclesiastes 9:5-6
English Standard Version (ESV)
5 For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten. 6 Their love and their hate and their envy have already perished, and forever they have no more share in all that is done under the sun.Isaiah 66:24
English Standard Version (ESV)
24 "And they shall go out and look on the dead bodies of the men who have rebelled against me. For their worm shall not die, their fire shall not be quenched, and they shall be an abhorrence to all flesh."
1 Thessalonians 5:23
English Standard Version (ESV)
23 Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Most JWs will soon start to speak of the destruction of the soul, Ezekiel 18 and such. However, nowhere does the bible ever speak of one's spirit being destroyed.Matthew 10:28
English Standard Version (ESV)
28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
Blessings from one made alive in Christ :) Stephen -
truthseeker
At 1 Corinthians 5:3 Paul said, "Even though I am not physically present, I am with you in spirit. And I have already passed judgment on the one who did this, just as if I were present."
Could this be referring to astral projection or teleporation? Or even remote viewing?
If the soul and spirit are seperate it would make sense that Paul could be in two places at the same time.