What is the spark that powers Evolution?

by N.drew 173 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  unshackled

  Thanks for those other links JonH and BoC. Great stuff!

  drew...you and I are examples of evolutionary developments. Here's a simple example: when you get goosebumps ever wonder why? They are a vestigial feature from a time when we had more hair and being fluffed up served as insulation for warmth. Also as a fear response, to appear larger, like cats do.

  Another observable example outside of humans is the ostrich or the kakapo parrot. Winged birds that are now flightless. The kakapo parrot has been seen to, when frightened, scoot up a tree and jump off in an attempt to fly. Only to plummet straight back down to the ground. Poor bugger.
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  N.drew

  Yes, I saw the Bee Movie. Haha.

  OK the appendix has no known function. Is the appendix on it's way out, or on it's way in? I want one piece of evidence that there is a system on it's way in. It has been 200 years approximately that evolution has become science. What is ONE example of something we can expect in another few hundred years, something actively in the process of evolutionary change? Not something to fucking look at, I mean something that has a job. Brain thinks. Liver cleans. Heart pumps blood. Something that can be attached to a verb. One thing. Is there anything?
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  JonathanH

  No, I am sorry, you are beyond help. I tried, if you really want to learn then you need to take a biology course. The monkeys should be developing speech so they can take us to court was too much. If you have a problem with evolution, please recognize it is due to your own ignorance of biology and not because you have some valid "gotcha" point that biologists simply can't answer. Saying you have a short attention span is not an excuse. If you want an answer, go learn about it instead of asking insane questions on a message board. Go learn some fundementals of biochemistry, learn a bit about cellular biology, get a good handle on genetics, and the principles of evolution. Then come back to this topic and laugh at your questions with the rest of us. You will find it immensely rewarding. Saying you have a short attention span is not an excuse.
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  JonathanH

  *sigh* one last thing I can't let go. When do you think the heart developed? How about the liver? Blood? Lungs? How long do you think those things took? Three hundred years is not enough time, geologic time operates in millions of years, not hundreds. Read my previous post, and then go to fucking college.
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  NewChapter

  For instance primate speech adaptation. It should be in it's development stage by now, don't you think?

  You are being anthrocentric---you are assuming that all life forms are marching toward becoming human and to developing all the traits humans have. Nothing is finished, nothing is unfinished, all is evolving.

  It should be in it's development stage by now, don't you think? It has been some hundreds of years that higher animal life forms have been bred in captivity

  Now this is baffling on several levels. First---why would breeding in captivity increase the capacity for speech? Humans didn't develop the capacity for speech in captivity, and in fact, why would any other species need to develop speech to be complete---or incomplete---neither term that is relevant to evolution. Secondly---HUNDREDS of years. Really? This is a long time in your eyes? In evolution, it's a drop.

  The offspring should by now, according to time of past evolutionary development, in my opinion, be developing the organs and brain function for speech

  Why? What pressures would cause these species to develop in HUNDREDS of years, not only a different brain, but a different anatomy to support speech? And what makes you think these species would EVER head toward speech? Why haven't humans developed flippers? They've been swimming for THOUSANDS of years. Where are the flippers and why are you not questioning that?

  No, I don't think so. I would like autopsy evidence that some animal somewhere is starting to develope something new.

  You are not going to see this because everything has a function, unless we have lost the need for a function but the trait doesn't really get in the way. Think appendix. That function can change and mutate over time. In a court case a few years ago, the lawyers demonstrated this by taking apart a mousetrap. When they removed the lock that held the trap back, it no longer functioned as a mousetrap. However, the spring and bar were there, and it worked nicely as a tie clip.

  But I don't think you're interested in the answer. You ask the same questions over and over, you never address the answers, and you pretty much disregard the argument. I am just using this as practice to explain these things in writing. Even if I'm talking to a non-responsive entity.

  NC
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  JonathanH

  @Newchapter

  Khanacademy is fantastic for math. At the beginning of this year I bought a book on algebra, a book on geometry and found khanacademy. I didn't know jack about math. I had to start at the beginning and remind myself how to work with fractions, decimals, and negative numbers before I started on basic algebra. I took my placement exams six months later and got placed in advanced college algebra, and I've got a nearly perfect score in that class. I'll be starting in on calculus next semester. Some of it was my aptitude for logic, but khan academy helped TREMENDOUSLY. Because it's set up as short 5-10 minute lectures on various topics starting with arithmetic and ending in calculus, trigonometry and linear algebra (which is very advanced algebra), and there are excercises for you to do and it tracks your progress. There is no better tool out there for teaching yourself math. If I had just jumped right into college I would've been in remedial math as well. But a bit of preperation and hard work got me where I needed to be to start working on my B.S. in Engineering and/or Mathematics.
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  NewChapter

  Jonathon, this is a great video, and here is part of it. I think they do a beautiful job of explaining function and debunking the notion of irreducibly complexity---which I think is what N.Drew is arguing.

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5R5IzMqlsds&feature=related
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  N.drew

  200,000 years ago the first signs of higher life forms appeared. Or perhaps it's 500,000. maybe a million? My problem is I don't understand why there were millions of complex changes happening all over the world and in the sea, but since man has discovered science and medicine there have been found no evidence of beneficial complex changes in the works, for us to witness. I'm not talking about changes in style, I'm looking for changes in function. This is not a test. I am 56 almost. I can no longer hope to discover the cure for cancer. I do not have $100,000 so that I might complete college. I don't care to either for I haven't a good reason to do it. I hope that if science discovers something in it's development stage, science and media will share it with world. It would be something amazing to witness, I think.
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  NewChapter

  Thanks Jonathan. I will definitely utilize that too. I have some books and have worked up to algebra, but it's still not college level. I'm kind of surprised that as frustrating as it is, it is also quite enjoyable. That's the intangible benefit of college that gets overlooked. Before attending, I read and wrote what I liked and had an aptitude for. College said---NOT GOOD ENOUGH---and now I'm writing in styles and learning things I would have dismissed on my own. Like you said in an earlier post, I would have glossed over them. I am even more motivated because I don't want to lose scholarship money, which means I have no option but to do well.

  NC
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  NewChapter

  Check out the video N. Drew---it explains and proves a change in function. Other than that, I can't answer your questions anymore. They are not honestly motivated and you refuse to seriously considered the information we have shared. You made it to 56 without understanding these things, I'm sure you'll do just fine for the next 56 years defining the world through your particular bias. No biggie.

  NC