What is the spark that powers Evolution?

by N.drew 173 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  NewChapter

  Both populations of lizards would begin to accumulate different mutations

  And to add to this, mutations would not even be necessary in your excellent scenario. Directional selection and Genetic drift could simply take place to such a degree, a group speciates.

  Directional selection would be moving in a certain direction as the environment demands. So, if a long tail is advantageous, then the lizards with the longest tails would be reproductively more successful, and in time, the entire population has longer tails than the other side of the river. Add to that genetic drift, which is what happens when genes are limited to a smaller pool, and over time, the gentic makeup of the long tailed lizards become very different from the other side of the river. Since the two populations are separate from each other, there is no gene flow--in other words a sharing of genes, and eventually the two would no longer be genetically capable of reproducing. Add to that sexual recognition, and it gets even more interesting. The short tailed lizards recognize other short tailed lizards as mates. If they were to bump into a long tailed lizard, in spite of them having come from a common population, they would not even recognize them as mates.
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  JonathanH

  There is no finished function, and evolution is blind. Mutation is random, and natural selection selects from what is present. Why do you think there is a "finished" function? What would you consider an "unfinished" function?
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  JonathanH

  All true newchapter, there are many causes that generate speciation. For the sake of simplicity I gave a single possible scenario, but evolutionary biology is a rich and endlessly interesting field of study. I regret I don't get to spend more time with it in college, hopefully I can sneak a few more biology classes in there somewhere, but we will see.
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  NewChapter

  N. Drew, evolution doesn't know anything. It is a process that simply responds to the environment. You need to let go of the thought that this is directed by intelligence. You believe in intelligent design, so it may be hard for you to grasp that this process isn't thinking, it is simply reacting. It doesn't decide beforehand that it will create such and such to live here or there, it responds to pressures. You keep asking questions that can only be answered in the context of intelligent design. This is not a question that is relevent to evolution.

  When we say nature chooses, we don't actually mean it decided anything. We mean that it chooses in the sense that species adapt to nature, and in that way those that adapt the best will be chosen to be more successful. Nobody is writing out blueprints here.

  NC
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  NewChapter

  I regret I don't get to spend more time with it in college, hopefully I can sneak a few more biology classes in there somewhere, but we will see

  LOL Jonathan---I'm actually considering changing my major I am so fascinated. But there is more to it. I just spent five days with a cousin who is a zoologist, and a cousin who is working on her PHD in anthropology. Yeah---imagine family dinner with them! We don't discuss school, or kids, or work. No we talk about the Masai guide that one had in Africa recently, and debate whether the great apes should be kept in captivity considering all that we are learning. Yeah---dinner is fun. I wish you could have been there.

  NC
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  JonathanH

  That sounds awesome new chapter, and I would've loved to have been there.

  Personally I feel a bit uncomfortable when I see gorillas and chimpanzees in zoos. Watching them, they just seem different from a cheetah or a bison. They look like they are really thinking and feeling in a way that is more like us than other mammals. I kind of wonder if future generations will look back on us as being so arrogant when dealing with other creatures.

  What are you majoring in by the way (not to derail the topic, I am definitely still listening N.Drew)
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  NewChapter

  I'm majoring in English, but I did so because I write. I took 2 anthropology classes to help me work on a story that I've started, but I find myself completely smitten. In just this incomplete semester, I have so much material to write about that I am overwhelmed. I had a professor that is very invested in my writing, and she strongly recommended these courses when I outlined 2 stories for her. She keeps in contact with me and demands updates.

  The great apes need psychotropic drugs to keep them sane in captivity. There is now evidence, especially in chimpanzees and bonobos, that these species actually have culture. They are able to think symbolically to a degree, and evidence is coming out that they have a much more profound understanding of death than once thought. The more we learn, the more disturbing this becomes.

  Add to that their ability to not only use tools, but to plan ahead and to make them, and we are on touchy ground. And they can learn to make and use new tools. A recent experiment was run to see if bonobos could learn to use tools without being taught directly. A researcher banged a flaked of stone off and used the sharp flake to cut open a plastic bag of food. He did not attempt to teach the bonobo the skill, he simply did it. The bonobo watched and on it's own tried to bang off a flake. It couldn't do it at first, and on it's own figured out that if it smashed the stone on the ground it could get a flake. It used the flake to open the bag. As time went on, it taught itself to use a hammerstone. In other words, it was flint knapping.

  We must rethink how we handle these apes. They are definitely more aware than other animals, and captivity adversely affects them.

  NC
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  unshackled

  JonH and NC...I stumbled across this site today offering free video lectures on biology from Berkeley, MIT, Stanford, etc. Haven't dug into it yet but looks pretty good.

  http://www.cosmolearning.com/biology/courses/
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  NewChapter

  Wow unshackled, I can't believe that's free. I've saved it in my favorites. It looks incredibly interesting. Thanks!

  NC
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  unshackled

  Agreed NC. I thought there had to be a catch, such as some are free but you'd have to pay for the full course. But no, it's all there. Just started taking a look at this course - http://www.cosmolearning.com/courses/principles-of-evolution-ecology-and-behavior-285/ Fascinating!

  N.drew...answers to your questions can be found on that site. You just need to put the time in.