How Judicial Committees Violate Individual Privacy

by Londo111 31 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • hamsterbait
    hamsterbait

    Do any of those who disagree with information being passed to another congregation think that repentant pedophiles should be treated the same?

    What about murderors? There was a notorious letter to a Florida Congo, where the brother concerned was on the run as a murderor, but this was to be hushed up, whilst his being seen smoking was considered far more serious and "potentially life changing".

    Either all sins are wiped out in the blood of Christ, or the WT thinks they should be carved in tablets of stone... There are two sets of scales measuring justice depending on who decides on what is to be passed on.

    I remember a DF child molestor Elduh - abused by his own father as a kid - three boys abused, all families concerned turned against the WT Religion. He went 200 miles away. A few years later wanted reinstatement. The Elders in the original Congregation (the rules say THEY decide) refused. They were forced to back down by the CO in the new circuit and the Beth Hell.

    That is the problem RULES - the moment you start saying who should or should not have details passed on you are having to go beyond what the scriptures say. The only examples in the NT of somebody moving to a new location show Paul saying only good things about them. There is no example of him saying that as the person had <insert relevant sin or perversion> the brothers should be warned.

    At least the Churches leave most sins in the hands of God and the sinner - but that is wrong in the WT Lala LAnd.

    Since the witlesses say that god "is not partial" shouldnt they give repentant child molestors the benefit of the doubt too????? ( of the Devil's Advocate Class )

    HB

  • stillin
    stillin

    I'll agree wholeheartedly with the DO NOT TELL THE ELDERS sentiment. Not everybody is entitled to know the truth and some just can't handle it.

  • ziddina
    ziddina

    I don't quite know whether others on this site actually want to make the judicial committees PUBLIC... Personally, I would like to make them more OPEN - as in, I get to bring my LAWYER....!!!

    And character witnesses... AND the right to cross-examine witnesses - which segues back to that pesky lawyer again...

    Zid

  • Londo111
    Londo111

    00DAD,

    I couldn't agree more. Elders don't do much to save marriages. There the three reasons, according to the rules, for separation. But separation is tolerated, even if that criterion isn't met. Witnesses are told to go to them for help and they do little to nothing. Of course, what can they do to save a marriage? They are not equipped because their office is built on hay and stubble.

    Going back to the founders, Russell and Rutherford--both had marriage problems, both were separated or divorced from their mates. Of all people, surely their 'superior' application of Bible principles would help them build strong marriages, surely holy spirit would direct their family life so as to be an exemplary example for their flock and give them freeness of speech in the matter. With this foundation, what hope could be within the organization for getting help in regard to marriage?

    Similarly, I wonder if it was because of Rutherford's problems with alcohol, as to why the organization takes a relatively soft line with drunkenness. In Corinthians, a course of drunkenness is mentioned as the same criteria as fornication for expelling a person from the congregation. But two or three acts of fornication is prosecuted with all gusto, while I have seen certain elders get drunk repeatedly. Reports of drunkenness have been very rampant in Bethel…at most, workers were talked to, then sent back to work. There should be no double standard. If one is merciful toward one, then one should also be merciful to the other.

    Of course, many of those who get drunk, simply don't come forward about the matter. Good idea! I had a friend who once told me after I came confessed a matter to the elders, "You were never more of a Christian than the day you came forward." To that, I now say, I was never more of a fool!

    In page 38, paragraph 19, of the Shepherd the Flock of God book, it says, "If it comes to light or an appointed brother confesses that he has committed a disfellowshipping offense years in the past: The body of elders may determine he can continue to serve if the following is true: The immorality or other serious wrongdoing occurred more than a few year ago, and he is genuinely repentant, recognizing that he should have come forward immediately when he sinned. (Perhaps he has even confessed to his sin seeking help with his guilty conscience. He has been serving faithfully for many years, has evidence of God's blessing, and has the respect of the congregation."

    The implications of this paragraph is astounding. As a Witness, I had been taught that failure to confess would doom me. It would not only affect me come Armageddon, it would impede the holy spirit from flowing in the congregation. In a talk, one elder equated the lack of confessing as the same as jumping off the building. The longer you waited, the worse things would be. Such a person could never have God's blessing ever until they got matters straight via the elder arrangement.

    Had I read this paragraph when I was IN, I would have simply waited a few years, become appointed a servant, and then confessed. For reading this, as long as the judical sin was committed before their appointment, not only would they not be disfellowshipped, but they could very well keep their office.

    How many publishers could have avoided being shunned by family and friends and have kept their reputation had they known this? Of course, they like me, would never have read this paragraph while IN, because they were afraid to ever read this rulebook. I didn't want leprosy in my forehead.

    With this in mind, if you are still IN, and are somehow still a believer, and you feel compelled to confess, keep paragraph 19 in mind.

    One has to be careful within the organization who to speak to, when confessing something on one's conscience, or even when finding even doctrinal flaws with WTS dogma. In this regard, "Do not put YOUR faith in a companion. Do not put YOUR trust in a confidential friend. From her who is lying in your bosom guard the openings of your mouth."

    "Do not put your trust in nobles, nor in the son of earthling man, to whom no salvation belongs." This includes elders. As Micah said regarding such men, "Their best one is like a brier, their most upright one is worse than a thorn hedge."

    And as it is written in Jeremiah: “Woe to the shepherds who are destroying and scattering the sheep of my pasturage!” is the utterance of Jehovah. Therefore this is what Jehovah the God of Israel has said against the shepherds who are shepherding my people: “YOU yourselves have scattered my sheep; and YOU kept dispersing them, and YOU have not turned your attention to them.”

    How many of us sheeplike ones have ourselves ignored, then dispersed and scattered via disfellowshipping?

  • Londo111
    Londo111

    As for the question in regards to murderers and other predators, such crimes should be reported and handled by the law of the land. No such person should be harbored. Besides, if one has been convicted of such crimes, does not 'Caesar' have these in things in their own records?

    But I am referring to 'sins' which are not predatory crimes. Should records be kept by overseers and follow one throughout life? Should their not be provisions to protect a person's privacy or family secrets? The general populace was in an uproar over Facebook sharing information--but imagine if these folks had to deal with the level of privacy within the WTS organization? Would they want these people as keepers of their private data?

    And I totally agree about a more fair judicial system. A person provided with a defense and matters voted on by a jury, and character witnesses, ect… But, of course, this is how a democracy functions. As we are reminded from the platform, "Jehovah's organization is run from the top down!" Thus if you find yourself on the wrong side of a judicial committee, you have no rights. And several times throughout the 'Sheppard' book, it says when certain circumstances arises, it says, "Do not tell them…" It begs the question, to any who are still believers, is this Court truly a function of a loving and merciful and fair Kingdom? Is this a foregleam of what the Millennium would be like?

    Also…voting publicly is a farce and there are no secret ballots. That is true when a congregation has to vote on a matter, when the elders vote, even when the Governing Body votes. How many might vote differently if they code vote secretly? As in quantum mechanics, observation changes the outcome. Perhaps some in the judicial committee might vote toward a more merciful outcome, if they were not swayed, or afraid of what others would think. Perhaps the Governing Body would shift on doctrine or practice and take a more moderate line.

    I always thought it was funny when motions were voted on by the congregation. They were always unanimous. Who wanted to voice dissent in public? Who wanted to raise their hand to oppose? So in essence, whatever the elders decided, they knew the congregation would go through the motions on it. Thus voting was a mere formality and a waste of everyone's time.

    I remembered this in a congregation: "Who wants the meeting at 7 versus 7:30? Keep in mind brothers, elderly folks need to get home earlier because they have problems driving at night. What is the loving thing to do? Okay--let's see a show of hands…" How many would have voted differently if there were ballot boxes? Who would have raised their hands in favor of 7:30 after that?

  • truthseeker1969
    truthseeker1969

    What gets me is in the Uk they have the Data Protection act. this act forbids information being sent to non compliant countries about people.

    do you think they comply?

    do you think that 'teocratic warfare" lying to you and I apllies to them in this regard?

    how many times have they violated an individuals right to privacy becasue they deem themselves high and mighty?

    how many reputations have been ruined?

    yet if they were in the situation it would be covered up so fast.

    judicial committees are not found in the new testament period, only going to elders if you are spiritually sick, but what is that?

    down with JC's and let God deal with matters!

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    If an elder leaks confidential information that damages one's standing in the community, the elder might be liable. The problem is that altho they are often small business owners, the car safety thread reinforced how they don't care about protecting their hard earned assets. It takes money to bring a law suit and what can you attach for a possible judgment? The WTBTS is so heavy laden with cash and other assets that it is a nice juicy treat.

    I would think that most people who work hard would be more careful if they knew the concrete consequences of indiscretion. The WTBTS sets up the elders with little training. It is unfair to the elders and to the other members of the congregation. Those car people could lose every cent they have and perhaps go to jail or prison. Most Witnesses duke it out at the local level while the WTBTS is so serene and removed in Brooklyn.

  • Balaamsass
    Balaamsass

    I agree Band on the Run. With the court case in Menlo Park showing there is no arms length relationship, and the Rabid Hate Speech at the Public Watchtower Study, do you believe 2012 is RIPE for a Juicy lawsuit against WTB$?

    They might settle quikly rather than battle it out in the court of public opinion. San Francisco would be a GREAT place to bring suit. The printed trail of WTBS hate speech would work against them.

    By the end of 2012 the majority of the US population will have smart phones and private 24/7 access to the internet. Great publicity!!

    A savy attorney and plaintiff might make a little change from a quick settlement. What do you think?

    Are you game? $$

  • Londo111
    Londo111

    I have to say reading In Search of Christian Freedom as well as Combating Cult Mind Control gave me a better perspective on this.

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    It all makes perfect sense when you realize that these councils are not spiritual in nature. Basically, it is a very cheap way of protecting yourself from liability and control public relations. Law judges usually do not decide such personal matters with far reaching consequences. Judges must attend law school, and then judicial training. They are policed by appellate judges. The bottom line is rarely scriptural. It all revolves around WT legal liability.

    When I was born-in, pioneers had to do 100 hours of field service. Later after I left, I took some draft counseling lessons. What a coincidence that the federal govt. also agreed that 100 hours of work was necessary for a ministerial exemption. It may be coincidence but I don't think so.

    Skip theology and go straight to the Legal Department.

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit