But look at us now, the happiest, most loving people on earth. Our numbers are growing!
Spare us, please.
JW Apologists, Lurkers, etc., can you prove the selection in 1919?
by garyneal 39 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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00DAD
Personally, I've come to believe that Russell and the WTBTS were chosen in 1918/1919 ... by Satan to deceive and mislead!
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Franklin Massey
JDough, I hope my point wasn't lost on you. I was asking for your response should a JW say something like that. For those of us still "in" or those who have to interact with witnesses, those types of repsonses are presented in reply to honest, critical questioning about JW doctrine. If we want to help people out of the Org, we have to be able to break up the crystallized thought process of a heavily indoctrinated mind.
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garyneal
I'm hoping mankelli sees this thread. He seems so bent on helping all of us, can you imagine the number of people he could bring back to Jehovah's organization if he manages to prove the 1919 a reality?
What do you say, mankelli? Could you bring us this life saving information so we can all be spared from Jehovah's wrath? I had my study today and Brother Hero told me that to exercise faith we must take in accurate knowledge and be willing to share it with others. Can you please share the answer to this question with all of us? Please?
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Ding
Garyneal,
If you ask your wife to prove this, she will say that nothing will satisfy you.
So lower your request.
Based on the suggestions in Captives of a Concept, ask her to at least offer evidence that it is true by showing you what the WTS says Jesus examined in 1919 and found to be good spiritual food provided at the proper time -- all of their teachings from 1876 to 1919. Let her use the WTS' Proclaimers' book, and be sure she notes and explains to you what Russell and Rutherford taught, including:
-- Jesus' thousand year reign beginning in 1873, proved in part by the perfection of the sewing machine
-- Jesus' invisible presence beginning in 1874 (a teaching not changed until 1927) backed up by measurements from the Great Pyramid
-- 1914 being the date not for the beginning, but for the end of the time of trouble, including the overthrow of all earthly governments
-- 1925 being proved to be the date for the resurrection of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (Rutherford) and the truth based on that that millions then living would never die, etc.
-- Christmas and birthdays being celebrated by the WTS
-- A cross on the front of each Watchtower and on the WTS-provided pyramid at Russell's grave
-- Michael = the Pope (Rutherford)
-- Leviathan in Job = the locomotive
-- The distance in Rev. 14:20 being the exact distance between Scranton, Pennsylvania and Bethel in Brooklyn by way of the Hoboken ferry (Rutherford)
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wobble
Ding, you are correct in all of that above, spot on, but it would not matter if they could point to one unique doctrine that they taught in 1919, that they still teach in December 2011.
If they cannot do so, then as Ray Franz put it so well "To say that Jesus chose the Bible Students in 1919 on the basis of what they taught, is an insult to Jesus Christ" (Quote from memory)
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wannabefree
"To say that Jesus chose the Bible Students in 1919 on the basis of what they taught, is an insult to Jesus Christ"
My own personal experience that allowed me to continue with it as "The Truth" despite this reality is that it didn't matter so much what they taught, rather that I believed they were on the right track.
Afterall, the light gets brighter, that is driven home in the indoctrinated mind.
My thought was that it wasn't so much the teaching that mattered at the time, it was the heart condition, the sincerity, the willingness to be used by God, the desire to do what was right ... because of this God chose the organization and like clay those associated with it were molded by the Creator, cleansed and refined as time went on. I saw it as an ongoing process. Perhaps they were mistaken, but they were willing to feed the sheep, willing to correct errors as time went on. I thought this to be a sign of humility and willingness to be used by God.
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punkofnice
When I was 'in the truth' I'd have accepted 1919 without needing evidence if the WBT$ told me it was true. Surely, Jehovah(TM) was directing his 'chariot like' organization(TM) and that was all the logic I needed.
Now I'm 'out' and a 'mentally diseased apostate' that the 'Jehu elders' should 'slaughter' my thought process has kicked in at an alarming speed and it isn't taking much for me to see what an utter load of old b0((0cks the 1914/19 claim is.
I've been out 18 months thereabouts and once the 'truth' started to unravel I was amazed how quickly it all turned to dust.
1914/18/19 is not provable except thru' absolute blind faith.....which isn't proof at all!
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wobble
Spot on Mr Punko',
as to the JW reasoning above that Wanabee used when in, I have had that said to me ,but like most JW reasoning, it makes no sense, when you look at the credentials of say the Christadelphians at the time, teaching 99% then what JW's teach today, being much more exemplary as to neutrality etc etc
Why on earth would Jesus not choose them as definately being "on the right track" he wouldn't have had to give them much "Noo Lite" to mould them,
would he ??
No, bottom line is, for the claim to have any credibility they must be able to show some unique quality, work, or doctrine that made Jesus choose them.
If he did not choose them in 1919, where do todays GB, today's Elders and MS get their authority from ?
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N.drew
A lovey expression. I had a similar pwespective....
@ because of this God chose the organization and like clay those associated with it were molded by the Creator, cleansed and refined as time went on. I saw it as an ongoing process. Perhaps they were mistaken, but they were willing to feed the sheep, willing to correct errors as time went on. I thought this to be a sign of humility and willingness to be used by God.
But, then what happened?
