Islam and Muslim Countries additudes towards women.

by designs 40 Replies latest social current

  • myelaine
    myelaine

    dear glenster...

    the problem with each of these paths to reform:

    "The methodology of reform can be classified into two groups, one depending on
    re-interpreting the traditional texts which constitutes Islamic law. This
    varies widely from little deviation from the traditional interpretation, to the
    more liberal which considers only the meaning of Qur'an as a divine inspiration,
    while the wording is believed to be from the prophet Muhammad intended by him to
    suit his time and situation, therefore interpreting the problematic verses in
    modern times allegorically or even not considering them.

    "The second is questioning the authentic status applied to texts by the Tradi-
    tional Islamic Scholars, resulting in the most liberal case as of the Qur'an
    Alone Muslims in rejecting the Islamic narratives of the sayings and practises
    of Prophet Muhammad, namely the Hadith completely."

    ...in almost every instance of allah speaking, mohammad puts himself on par with his god. it is very much allah + mohammad say...there is no other point of view no other "witness" what-so-ever..."O mankind! the Messanger hath come to you in truth from Allah: believe in him: it is best for you. But if you reject Faith, to Allah belong all things in the heavens and on earth: and Allah is All-knowing, All-wise." surah 4:170...backing up 2 verses: "Those who reject Faith and do wrong, Allah will not forgive them nor guide them to any(168) except the way of Hell. To dwell therein for ever. And this to Allah is easy.(169)"...the muslim, unfortunately, is stuck with mohammad and allah...together that IS the Faith.

    love michelle

  • White Dove
    White Dove

    I hate their religion because of their views on women.

    However, I respect the right of those who wish to follow it.

    I will NEVER travel to a Muslim country.

    I don't like those countries as they are right now.

    I am prejudiced against their religion and government.

    How could I not be?

    However, I am not prejudiced against the people themselves.

  • Bangalore
  • Bangalore
    Bangalore

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    The Nation
    Muslim leader blames women for sex attacks

    by: Richard Kerbaj
    From: The Australian
    October 26, 2006 12:00AM

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    THE nation's most senior Muslim cleric has blamed immodestly dressed women who don't wear Islamic headdress for being preyed on by men and likened them to abandoned "meat" that attracts voracious animals.

    In a Ramadan sermon that has outraged Muslim women leaders, Sydney-based Sheik Taj Din al-Hilali also alluded to the infamous Sydney gang rapes, suggesting the attackers were not entirely to blame.

    While not specifically referring to the rapes, brutal attacks on four women for which a group of young Lebanese men received long jail sentences, Sheik Hilali said there were women who "sway suggestively" and wore make-up and immodest dress ... "and then you get a judge without mercy (rahma) and gives you 65 years".

    "But the problem, but the problem all began with who?" he asked.

    The leader of the 2000 rapes in Sydney's southwest, Bilal Skaf, a Muslim, was initially sentenced to 55 years' jail, but later had the sentence reduced on appeal.

    In the religious address on adultery to about 500 worshippers in Sydney last month, Sheik Hilali said: "If you take out uncovered meat and place it outside on the street, or in the garden or in the park, or in the backyard without a cover, and the cats come and eat it ... whose fault is it, the cats or the uncovered meat?

    "The uncovered meat is the problem."

    The sheik then said: "If she was in her room, in her home, in her hijab, no problem would have occurred."

    He said women were "weapons" used by "Satan" to control men.

    "It is said in the state of zina (adultery), the responsibility falls 90 per cent of the time on the woman. Why? Because she possesses the weapon of enticement (igraa)."

    Muslim community leaders were yesterday outraged and offended by Sheik Hilali's remarks, insisting the cleric was no longer worthy of his title as Australia's mufti.

    Young Muslim adviser Iktimal Hage-Ali - who does not wear a hijab - said the Islamic headdress was not a "tool" worn to prevent rape and sexual harassment. "It's a symbol that readily identifies you as being Muslim, but just because you don't wear the headscarf doesn't mean that you're considered fresh meat for sale," the former member of John Howard's Muslim advisory board told The Australian. "The onus should not be on the female to not attract attention, it should be on males to learn how to control themselves."

    Australia's most prominent female Muslim leader, Aziza Abdel-Halim, said the hijab did not "detract or add to a person's moral standards", while Islamic Council of Victoria spokesman Waleed Ali said it was "ignorant and naive" for anyone to believe that a hijab could stop sexual assault.

    "Anyone who is foolish enough to believe that there is a relationship between rape or unwelcome sexual interference and the failure to wear a hijab, clearly has no understanding of the nature of sexual crime," he said.

    Ms Hage-Ali said she was "disgusted and offended" by Shiek Hilali's comments. "I find it very offensive that a man who considers himself as a mufti, a leader of Australia's Muslims, can give comment that lacks intelligence and common sense."

    Yesterday, the mufti defended the sermon about "adultery and theft", a recorded copy of which has been obtained and translated by The Australian.

    Sheik Hilali said he only meant to refer to prostitutes as "meat" and not any scantily dressed woman with no hijab, despite him not mentioning the word prostitute during the 17-minute talk.

    He told The Australian the message he intended to convey was: "If a woman who shows herself off, she is to blame ... but a man should be able to control himself". He said if a woman is "covered and respectful" she "demands respect from a man". "But when she is cheap, she throws herself at the man and cheapens herself."

    Sheik Hilali also insisted his references to the Sydney gang rapes were to illustrate that Skaf was guilty and worthy of receiving such a harsh sentence.

    Waleed Ali said Sheik Hilali was "normalising immoral sexual behaviour" by comparing women to meat and men to animals and entirely blaming women for being victims.

    "It's basically saying that the immoral response of men to women who are not fully covered is as natural and as inevitable as the response of an animal tempted by food," he said.

    "But (unlike animals) men are people who have moral responsibilities and the capability in engaging in moral action."

    Revelation of the mufti's comments comes after he criticised Mr Howard last month in The Australian for saying a minority of migrant men mistreated their women. Sheik Hilali said such a minority was found in all faiths. "Those who don't respect their women are not true Muslims."

    "There's a small percentage found among all religions, but we don't recognise ours as Muslims."

    Aziza Abdel-Halim said Sheik Hilali's remarks during Ramadan were inaccurate and upsetting to the Muslim community.

    "They are below and beyond any comment (and) do not deserve any consideration."

    'Kevin Rudd has been delivered a very public slap in the face.'
    'Julia Gillard would be happy with this Newspoll, the last one for the year.'
    Paul Kelly
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    Dennis Shanahan
    'The benefits for Labor and Gillard are largely drawing from negatives for the Coalition and Abbott'
    Troy Bramston
    'THOSE hoping for significant renewal of the Labor Party will be bitterly disappointed'
    Mark Day
    'Paul McMullan's evidence was gobsmacking'

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    Bangalore

  • glenster
    glenster

    It's surprising this doesn't come up here more often. Islam reminds me of
    the JWs leaders in some ways. You can probably think of more comparisons than
    these:

    Spokespeople of Michael spokesperson for Gabriel
    created Jesus ordinary man Jesus
    Shunning of apostates Execution of apostates
    mainly Western world mainly Middle East
    avoid alleged "worldliness" avoid Western culture/politics "worldliness"
    Clayton Woodworth-- camel urine w/camel milk as medicine--
    (Golden Age) (hadith)
    door to door Muslims who claim Islam will take over the world
    conservative most are orthodox, most of the rest conservative
    --reform will bring shunning --reform may bring a hostile fatwa
    dress modestly dress modestly
    male/female roles male/female roles
    blood rule-- Islam--
    altered Mosic law altered Mosaic law
    Suicide for blood rule suicide for Islam
    (most JWs approve) (most Muslims disapprove)

  • glenster
    glenster

    continued:

    own version of the Bible own version of the Bible
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_view_of_the_Bible
    door to door pilgrimage to Mecca
    Governing Body Islamic Jurists--Ulama
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulema
    Watchtower science Bucailleism
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bucailleism
    Intelligent design Theistic evolution or intelligent design
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_creationism

  • myelaine
    myelaine

    dear glenster...

    the other day I was going to comment on Terry's thread (about when he was baptised 2 days after JFK was killed)

    my comment which I typed out but didn't post was about how the "average" muslim, and the "average" person who becomes a JW were probably MORE *spiritual and humane before they started to fully engage with their "religion"

    love michelle

    p.s. mohammad's gabriel is an imposter. the angel gabriel in the bible declared that Jesus WAS the Son of God, and he will again because that is the fundamental reason why he IS the angel gabriel

    *spiritual...I mean open to the touch of God and empathetic towards mankind in general and their fellows in particular.

  • mrsjones5
    mrsjones5

    "It's always amazed and amused me that some black Americans became Muslim while decrying the "white man's" role in establishing slavery in America - apparently they were totally unaware of the role that followers - ahem, WHITE followers of Islam - played in the slave trade...."

    Zid

    Yeah Zid, I don't get it either.

  • myelaine
    myelaine

    I've read that most people who point their fingers at "white men" for the slave trade don't realize that it was the "black men" who were compensated because they dragged their brothers from the interior to the shores to be loaded on to boats.

    ...we cry in our cups or move forward...now THAT wasn't very PC was it?

    love michelle

  • myelaine
    myelaine

    Sometimes I think world "events" move at a pace and I'm sorry for being momentarily cranky the other day...

    moving forward...we should have the desire to shift focus off of our own "selves". (Ghandi said an eye for an eye and the whole world will go blind) It means being thankful for what we have and not dwelling on what we feel we dont have. North America is rich in human resources, ability, compassion and drive yet we go out to "change the world" in our own strength. What/who holds us back from meeting/uniting under God...2 thessalonians 2:3-12?

    Or what/who holds us back from going forth in the power of the Holy Spirit to "change the world" through/because of our faith in Jesus Christ...2 thessalonians?

    Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He so it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?---just as Abraham "believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. And the scriptures, foreseeing that God would justify the nations by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, "In you all the nations shall be blessed." So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham. For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them." But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for "The just shall live by faith." yet the law is not of faith, but "The man who does them shall live by them." Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree." that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the gentiles in Jesus Christ, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. (galatians 3:3-14)...Jeremiah 33:3

    I think this (admittedly "fundamental") video will be of interest and encouragement to some of you who are led to watch it.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuj6D3pqn6w&feature=relmfu

    love michelle

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