How to silence family/elders, and not be labeled apostate, prove the 1,000 year reign understanding is false....

by EndofMysteries 29 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  EndofMysteries

  My reason for leaving or fading is because after actually reading the bible, I began to gain understanding and seeing everywhere what the bible teaches is not what JW's teach. There is no need to bring up 'apostate' material, the history of JW's, etc, as that sets up a mental block (if you ever were a strong JW you may remember yourself it wouldn't work). The foundation of the faith is that the bible is the final authority, the bible trumps everything, and that only JW's follow the bible everyone else twists it to their traditions and customs. If you learn and see what the bible actually teaches on key aspects of the faith, and you do it correctly, then not only may something unlock in their mind, but at the very least you should be left alone.

  I will share just one small example, and I hope this information isn't used to attack or tear people down from God, I still believe and I believe I'm getting the truth by putting faith in him alone to show me instead of other people. I am also looking for the truth, even if I don't like it.

  This is just ONE example and I am also not faking my sincerity when I speak with them. I have been saying that I don't want to leave God, I'm not looking for my own followers, I am really trying to do the right thing, but first I feel hypocritical when preaching to others that they must drop their beliefs and go only on the bible when we are not allowed to do that on our own, if we find something wrong, it's labeled apostate.

  This is one of the scriptures and examples that have 'stumbled' me and unable to get an answer. (I'm learning the truth behind this in the bible but won't get on in WT literature and they won't be able to answer it...)

  In Revelation 20:7-10 shows the war with Gog and Magog. It says they surround the camp of the holy ones and fire comes down out of heaven and devours them. This is at the end of the 1,000 year reign. Now the JW understanding is that after armagedon (the one coming now), 1,000 years of perfection, no human governments, and resurrections, then Satan released, deceives and just true worshippers are surrounded and destroyed.

  Now with the bible being the final authority, is there anywhere else in the bible you can find more details on this event? The answer is YES, 2 entire chapters in Ezekiel 38 and 39. Now just to make sure it is definitely talking about the same event, we see in Ez 38:1-2 its to Gog of Magog, in verse 16 it says the REASON for what is about to happen, he will come up against Israel, "I shall certainly bring you against my land, for the purpose that THE NATIONS MAY KNOW ME WHEN I SANTIFY MYSELF IN YOU BEFORE THEIR EYES, O Gog".

  But again is this the same event, in vs 22 it then says, "fire and sulphur I shall rain down upon him and upon his bands and upon the many peoples that will be with him."

  It matches perfectly. But some questions then, how is it the reason for this event is so that they nations may know him? If there is no human government, if this is after the first armagedon, wouldn't the whole world have known God? It does not make any sense does it?

  Chapter 39 then details what will happen after this event and the cleanup process.

  Now at this point, family, elders, anybody may try to sidetrack and go to different scriptures or things on how there is a faithful slave, or apostates, etc, you must be firm and say what is the final authority, does the WT trump the bible or does the bible trump the WT? Also don't let it get off topic, say your not looking for your own truth, you want the real truth, and if these are 2 different events, to show you SCRIPTURE which will lead one to believe that. You want SCRIPTURAL proof they are not the same event.

  If nothing can be provided, then how can you be labeled apostate, how can you be expected to believe something not in harmony with the scriptures. They will just want to stop talking bout it and probably leave you alone.

  So for those of you learning the truth of the bible, appeal to the part of the faith that bible is the truth, and hit their conscience with are they following the bible or will they allow human teachings which are not in harmony with the bible to overtake them?
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  EndofMysteries

  *no human governments, there will be resurrections, then satan released, true worshippers surrounded by the bad people and they get destroyed.
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  Larsinger58

  #1. Gog of Magog is a sociopolitical reference to Nasism.

  #2: Ezekiel is talking about the great tribulation against the Jews during the HOLOCAUST. It is not talking about after the 1000 years is over.

  #3: Revelation simply indicates Satan will inspire Nazism among whites after the 1000 years is over.

  Satan is a Nazi so Satanism and Nazism are pretty much the same thing.

  Interesting topic though.

  Christendom, represented by trinity-believing 666 = KKK when converted to a name. "KKK" is a modern reference to racism/Nazism, which is primarily Chritendom's practice. First of all, "Christianity" is said to be the "white man's relifion" but the greatest names in history, Ghandi, ML King, Lincoln, Mandela and, of course, Hitler, are all famous for the same context: White superiority and surpremacy issues.

  If you think of Satan as a young Nazi you will understand a lot about him.

  LS
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  simon17

  There are so many presuppositions and vagueness that anything in the Bible like this is open wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide to interpretation. Yours probably makes as much (or as little) sense as anything else about an overall ridiculous concept logically.

  My point is: I dont think you're changing people against the WT organization. They are just going to accept the WT interpretation of events.
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  OnTheWayOut

  It's a dangerous mind-control cult. Accept that and you will know that what I say below is true:

  To silence family and elders, disassociate or get disfellowshipped or at least expose your differences with WTS.
  To not be labeled "apostate" fade away fairly silently and don't talk against WTS in any way.

  To do both is not happening. It doesn't matter how sure you are of your Bible base.

  I know you mean well, but please don't encourage others to share your fantasy that this can happen. To answer your questions, the average JW (and elders are typically average JW's) will simply say that it is difficult to know what is literal in the Bible and what is figurative. "That's why we rely on the spirit-direction from the brothers who provide our understanding. Anything that seemingly doesn't fit will be sorted out for us as long as we wait on Jehovah."
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  cyberjesus

  NO no no, you are wrong Lars, Gog de Magog is really Barack Obama, the great tribulation is really the period of trouble he is enduring and Satan is really Barack Obama also.

  That is the real interpretation
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  MrFreeze

  OTWO is exactly right. If you show any doubt or show a difference in opinion with the Almight Watchtower, you will get the label as an independent mind and a troublemaker.
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  Larsinger58

  Unfortunately, apostates have just as many false teachings as the WTS! So some jump from the frying pan right into the fire.

  Two false teachings have been provided by Jehovah for recognizing the WTS as the evil slave and MOL. They are contained in this video. Turns out on a few of us die-hard Biblicists ever really get to the bottom of the truth.

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULzFgcISIKE

  LS
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  Vidqun

  Here's some personal research I did on the subject a year or so ago:

  From the time of Jewish historian Josephus, “the land of Magog” has been associated with the Scythian tribes found in North Eastern Europe and Central Asia (Josephus, Antiquities, pp. 30, 31). Its definite location being uncertain, this is an indication that it is here used in a symbolic sense. More specific are those associated with Gog’s crowed. Amongst his troops are Gomer and Beth-togarmah “from the remotest parts of the north”, Persians (Iranians), Cushites (black Africans), and Putians (Libyans). As seen, all of these are allies of the King of the North (cf. Dan. 11:43). In the Gog and Magog tradition, a number of nations will be congregated against the people living on “the mountains of Israel”. This will occur in the “latter part of the days” (cf. Is. 66:7; Ez. 38:8, 11, 16, 18; Dan. 8:9-12; 11:31).

  This event has been described in detail by the prophet Ezekiel (38, 39). Gog of the land Magog is identified with the head chieftain of Meshech and Tubal. Van Hoonacker, ZA, 28 (1914), 336 derives the name “Gog” from Sumerian gug, “darkness”, and thus Magog = the land of darkness and Gog = the personification of darkness (TDOT, vol. II, p. 422). This is an indication that Gog should be associated with the Prince of Darkness, Satan the Devil himself (cf. Rev. 20:7, 8). So Gog's crowd would be those nations under direct control of Satan the Devil. It is noteworthy that “Edom, Moab and the main part of the sons of Ammon” are missing from this crowd. The remainder of these would have been assimilated by Israel (cf. Dan. 11:41). Individuals from these nations would throw in their weight behind the anointed remnant.

  Gog, in imitation of Jehovah God, would turn back his hand “upon devastated places reinhabited and upon a people gathered together out of the nations” for the purpose of inflicting judicial punishment on them (Ez. 38:12; cf. Ps. 81:14). On behalf of Jehovah, Ezekiel (38:17) then poses the following question: “Are you the same one of whom I spoke in the former days by the hand of my servants the prophets of Israel?” Former prophets might have mentioned Gog, but it was never recorded in the Bible. The name Magog occurs once in the Table of Nations (Gen. 10:2) and once in Chronicles (1 Chron. 1:5). Keil & Delitzsch suggest that this might refer to a type, encompassing all enemies of Israel.

  The context of the passage in Revelation indicates that it would be fulfilled after the thousand years (cf. Rev. 20:3, 7, 8), whereas Ez. 38 & 39 point to "the latter part of the days" (Ez. 38:16; cf. Dan. 2:28; Is. 2:1, etc.).

  Lars, Nazi-like individuals might be part of Gog's crowd. They certainly qualify. However, like simon17 says, it's open to interpretation.
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  Aussie Oz

  Here's the kicker as far as i am concerned...

  GOBBLEDEGOOK! All of it is BULLSHIT.

  The bible is the word of god to mankind? Hah! what a joke it is, what a crap inspirationalist 'god' is. The so called single most important literature ever given to mankind cannot be clearly understood by anybody. Riddles, clues, parables and dreams, shit, a 10 year old could write a more understandable story.

  Already in this thread THREE different interpretations of the same chapters and verses!

  As for avoiding the apostate label...NOPE. To go on the bible alone, without the FDS is seen as apostacy. You should know that.

  oz