How to silence family/elders, and not be labeled apostate, prove the 1,000 year reign understanding is false....

by EndofMysteries 29 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Larsinger58
    Larsinger58

    VIDQUN: You are qutie alert and well read:

    Yo Oz, the memorial partakers amongst JWs believe they are "the mountains of Israel" (Ezek. 38:8) and "the land of the Decoration" (Dan. 11:41, 45), as well as spiritual "Jerusalem" (Zech. 14:2), and "the two witnesses" (Rev. 11:3). Well, "the mountains" and the "Decoration" are going to be invaded (and occupied). "Jerusalem" is going to be pillaged, and the two witnesses are going to be killed. This means that if they are who they say they are, as an organization they will be destroyed (cf. Dan. 12:7). These will stumble, meaning they will be killed. The word for stumble in Dan. 11 means "to cause to fall". In HALOT this verb is described "to fall, collapse (of a government or dynasty) Dan. 11:14, 19, 33, 35, 41." Think about it. The GB and anointed ones will either be arrested or killed, and the Bethel houses around the world expropriated. With JWs leaderless, the preaching work will grind to a halt. If that is the case and it happens accordingly, will you then believe? Time will tell....

    Here are the corrections just for your information:

    1. The "two witnesses" are the primary slaves among 10 mentioned in Jesus' parable about the 10 slaves he sends out to do business until he returns with kingly power. That is, in 1914 several ministries are inspired (not necessarily just 10), including the evil slave organization known as the WTS. One produces 10-fold and a second 5-fold. These are the "two witnesses" that are assigned to assist directly in the 2nd coming. They proclaim Christ will arrive on December 21, 1992, the day of the winter solstice. The WTS joins the UN to try to prevent this second coming event by physically preventing the chosen physical body of the messiah to go into a trance over 2 days necessary for the event of the war in heaven and Satan's expulsion to take place, plus the "transmigration" where Christ's spirit is implanted into the body of the prodigal son/Lazarus, a gay black male. The "two witnesses" are part of the woman who gives birth to the messiah, who has a place in the "wilderness" prepared by Jehovah and thus are private, secret, underground ministries. The woman is represented as giving birth to this messiah because one of her members is chosen as the body of the messiah. So after the messiah becomes one of the anointed, he is inducted into the secret societies of the faithful 9 slaves, but primarily the secret socities of the "two witnesses", the largest two secret societies. Thus when he becomes the messiah at the transmigration, he is seen being born from this woman.

    But we also note Satan tries to devour the chlid and that the beast ascending out of the abyss, which is the UN which includes the WTS since early 1992, kills the two witnesses. This was fulfilled because they did interrupt the 2nd coming for December 21st 1992, likely due to the cooperation and assistance of the WTS who knew the identity of the messiah since November 10, 1992. Even so, Jehovah assasinated then president Fred Franz the next day, which also helped to afford the 2nd coming taking place 3-1/2 days after the 21st on December 25th. The death of the "two witnesses" without being buried though, represents their preaching about the 21st 2nd coming was now dead. That prediction was sileneced by interaction by the UN/WTS, who operates through local Freemasons. So all that happened in 1992 when the 2nd coming occurred. Remember christ comes as a thief in the night for most of the world, so the world will discover his arrival long after he has been here.

    Finally, yes, "Judea" and "Jerusalem" have to be symbolic at the time of the great tribulation because the Jews are in exile at the time. So "Judea" becomes the area of their primary resettlement in Eastern Europe, and Warsaw, Poland, the largest concentration of Jews, becomes symbolic "Jerusalem." Of note, the Nazi army did completely surround Warsaw, Poland with huge canons which bombarded the city until it fell. This fulfills the time when the "disgusting thing is in a holy place" before the devastation. This is also a time when after the city was conquered, there was a chance to flee to the mountains before the Jewish ghetto was walled off and then liquidated.

    So it is all true and it all happened, even the WTS being a member of the UN, the beast out of the abyss that tries to interfere with the 2nd coming and does kill the message of the "two witnesses" about the Christ arriving on the 21st of December, 1992. This was allowed for 3-1/2 days only, though and the Christ arrived on December 25-26.

    Also of note, the "disgusting thing in a holy place" includes JWs as the "holy place" and thus we see as well Nazi Germany focussing on JWs as well.

    See video explaining this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnTy8_EhE0Y

    It's all true and all being fulfilled! But you have to have the right interpretation. But at least you're looking! Many others are lost and asleep.

    LS

  • EndofMysteries
    EndofMysteries

    Correction -

    The two witnesses are not human, the bible hints at who or what they are......in Rev 11:4 it says about the two witnesses, "these are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that are standing before the Lord of the Earth".

    The key scripture to help decode this is in Zechariah 4:3, 13-14. "there are two olive trees along side it", "these are the two annointed ones who are standing alongside the Lord of the whole Earth."

    Seems all who interpret the two witnesses never even seen what Zechariah 4 mentions of them.

  • EndofMysteries
    EndofMysteries

    O and to get back to topic, after reading Rev 11:4 and Zech for who the two witnesses are, then look in the Revelation book and you'll see them try to say that Rutherford and the annointed alive around 1919 clearly shows that to be wrong.

  • Intel
    Intel

    OnTheWayOut & Aussie Oz:

    There is NO way to do this in that "elegant" sincere fashion you are suggesting OP! I am talking of experience. I was Bethelite (Elder) for over 10 years and this is how this will go down:

    1. "Brother Doubter, we have the FDS to direct us, we should not rely on our own interpretations. Please wait for a future WT article that will clarify this issue. Proverbs 4:18 blahblahblah....in due time...you will see....now go and place more mags please and SHUT UP." (putting fingers in her/his ears and singing LALLALALALALA....)

    You must understand that they are in the cult NOT because of the truth, it is because of the "mental crack" that this gives them (a "wonderful" feeling of "aaaaaaaahhhhh, all will be gooooood"....."I don't have to do ANY thinking, solve the worlds problems.....just dozing comfortably, and wait...placing a few mags here and there, sit in the Kindumb Hell and BANG win the lottery...."

    The appeal is a fantasy world that CANNOT be destroyed by any means! And your talking and logic and even wielding the Bible like that will make them nervous!

    As far as Bible versus Watchtower magazine goes, here is my own little experience that left me bewildered and f&%$# confused at the time: I was an Bethel Elder and would regularly meet with Branch Committee members in the countries I served. In one of these Branches (I will avoid names and places because good people - with DOUBT - are still in high ranking positions and I don't want to rat them out) they had a particular problem that needed to be discussed with the Zone Overseer (representative of the GB). During that discussion we (at the Branch) would come up with Bible verses to argue a certain point and lookup Watchtower articles and get nowhere. The discussion was taking too long and we were "chasing our own tails"...after one of the Branch Committee Member mentioned a Bible verse AGAIN, that was in clear contradiction with the WT articles used by the Zone Overseer, he stood up and YELLED: "I don't care what you say is in the Bible, it is HERE clearly written and if the WATCHTOWER says so it IS SO." (he angrily pointed at the articles and threw them on the table). He ended the meeting after this outburst and left. Matter solved.

    Some of the participants of that meeting shrugged this incident off with comments like "yeah, we are all imperfect humans, how great that Jehuba is using these wonderful imperfect humans" "yeah, we are here for Jehober, not for people like him, lets continue with our duties and move on." ..."yeah, lets discuss what we will have as special dinner meal for the last day of the visit" > Everybody agreed on the last one.

    I didn't need the Internet to become an Apostate. I spent way too much time being an hardcore witness and way too much time at BET-HELL.

    You are "cutting off" the supply and people like him will get very angry if you do this to them:

  • Aussie Oz
    Aussie Oz

    Yo Vidqun If that is the case and it happens accordingly, will you then believe?

    NO i will not.

    The passages you guys are on about, Daniel thru Revelation and a flick here n there in the gospels have been interpreted a thousand different ways by a thousand individuals. At each time in history over the last 2000 years when these fools lived, they have been applied to whatever and whoever is seen at the time to be the bogey man. And sometimes even the same year has had several different predictions and bogey men (sounds like 2011)

    The demise of all these past powers, emperors, popes, oppresors or whoever was not an armageddon. Just victims of history and movements falling in time. And when the WT has its time, it too will be relegated to an obscure belief system 'way back a thousand years ago' by who ever claims to be the reincarnation of Larsinger58 in the year 2114

    pick a year is a very interseting read...

    http://web.me.com/lorenmadsen/endings/pick_a_year.html

    Lars you crazy dude...You are right the Bible is confusing. It is meant to be, but to scorners. The secrets of Bible understanding are primarily for the elect who understand and are given the light to unravel these mysteries

    You are admitting that it IS NOT the divine word of god to mankind. A totally useless peice of literature if only the elect (yourself) can actually 'understand' it. And the thing is, as much as you like to think you can, you can't. You can only understand it the way you want it to read. And any other self proclaimed 'elect' will disagree with you, thus proving that you guys can't even decide who is real elect or a fake one because yourselves are the sole deciders of your own electness and understanding.

    And then, you guys have the nerve, the shear nerve to ask people to follow you, to pay attention to you! False guides no better than the WT or any other self proclaimed elects in history. I find it disgusting, haughty and manipulative for you all to profess YOU are the elect, YOU have the secret knowledge. Be careful that the words you so regularly say will be visited on the WT don't get visited on YOU!

    Gobbledegook full bore!

    oz

  • Quarterback
    Quarterback

    That was great research, Vid.

  • Quarterback
    Quarterback

    Hi, End.

    The concept of going alone at doing your own research/interpretation of the scriptures is another strike that the ORG uses against you. Apparently, individuals are not allowed to come to their own conclusions. They are wrong, even when they are right.

    The ORG can make mistakes, but they are right. We can't challenge them. They will always have a correction in place for when they discover that they were wrong, and you have to stop believing in yesterdays understanding, and begin believing the amended changes from them.

    I have read the Bible over many times throughout the years. I know that I don't have to guess at how Jesus showed us to be a good Christian. He sure was a great model. I don't need to read about him in the ORG publications, but I must say that they should be credited with some good research at times. But, this prophecy about what is to happen in the future is something that I think is anyone's guess.

    We shall see.

  • Vidqun
    Vidqun

    Thanks for the compliment, Quarterback. But unfortunately I can't take the credit. I lean heavily on dictionaries and lexicons, especially those of German origin. So I must defer the credit to these brilliant German scholars. What helps, is a knowledge of the original languages of the Bible. Early on I realized that one cannot tackle Scriptural questions without at least a basic knowledge of the original Biblical languages. These I would utilize to decimate all opposers of Truth. How the wheel has turned! Now I am forced to use that knowledge to expose erroneous Watchtower teaching and interpretation. And I agree, give credit where due. My basic Bible knowledge I did get from the Witnesses, so they and what they teach are not all bad.

  • Larsinger58
    Larsinger58

    The two witnesses are two "slaves" among many sent out in 1914 to do work until the messiah arrives. The two witnesses are the two most successful "ministries" of these slaves who work in secret and part of the woman who dwells in the "wilderness." They are the 10-fold and 5-fold witnesses. These are the secret groups that arranged for the logistical requirements for the 2nd coming. The location for the testing of the messiah so that he fulfills Isa 53 and the passage read by the Ethiopian eunuch which is to be silent before death, as well as the specific hiding place for the pre-messiah so that the 2-day transe necessary for this to take place would not be interrupted by Satan and his agents. Those two details were connected with dumpters and dump trucks, ironically. The messiah was dumpted into a dump truck which began its compacting cycle which would have crushed the messiah to death. But it was also a scenario where he could have yelled out to stop it, but didn't. So that fulfilled the details of that prophecy. A mock death scenario like with Abraham and Isaac where death was real potentially, but could be interrupted by the messiah's choice. Some homeless people have died by being crushed in a dump truck if unnoticed. I didn't know for sure I wasn't going to be crushed and I was instructed by Jehovah not to yell out. With that kind of direct communication from Jehovah had I been killed I knew for a fact I'd be up in heaven and live again, so there wasn't much fear there. Of course, the compater stopped before crushing me as expected, but the test was still valid. It was a legimate mock death that matched the prophecy about a lamb being silenet before being killed.

    The other thing, as noted, is finding an isolated metal commercial dumpster to hide the messiah in so that the 2-day transe for the "battle in heaven" and "transmigration" would take place uninterrupted. The metal dumpster also served as a shield from any kind of radioactive high-tech tracers carried in his clothes or even on or within his person, as radioactive chemicals can be inhaled or ingested.

    But someone had to set this up, communicate to the messiah where to go, etc. This was the direct activity carried out by these two secret societies of the "two witnesses."

    It's all amazing. It's all true. And it is all so hard to believe, even as I have given you the details!

    ACTS 13: 41 ‘Behold it, YOU scorners, and wonder at it, and vanish away, because I am working a work in YOUR days, a work that YOU will by no means believe even if anyone relates it to YOU in detail.’”

    LS

  • iclone
    iclone

    EndofMysteries...you do not need to reference Ezekiel to refute this passage from Revelation. If you look at the timeline according to WTS interpretation, this confrontation takes place after the 1000 years of Christ's reign. Ask any JW “where will the anointed including the earthly remnants be when this takes place” they will affirm that they will be in heaven with Christ all 144,000 of them. Yet, the scripture in Revelation says Satan encircle the camp of “The Holy Ones” It has always been my understanding that the Holy Ones refer to the anointed or heavenly class; that being the case how is it that Satan encircles their camp when supposedly they are all in heaven? I always have fun with this scripture, not to mention Matthew 19:28 where Jesus states that the ones sitting on the 12 thrones (anointed class) will judge the 12 tribes of Israel (also the anointed class) The WT have made feeble attempts to explain this one away!

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