Let's hear some more about JK's pro.
Your Thoughts, Please (Seriously)...
by AGuest 88 Replies latest jw friends
-
-
sabastious
Wikipedia is not a legal website because allowing legal advice in such a widespread user-driven form would almost surely bankrupt the company after too many sues. Unimaginable liability.
I for one like the idea of a protected legal section of JWN. However, I would say put red disclaimers all around it that tells users to be careful who they listen to and cross check any advice given. You could lose your shirt paying lawyers who know nothing about Witnesses. A forum could even help prepare people to go to lawyers. EXJW's with legal experience, or whoever, could answer some questions at their own discretion. A forum where people could archive their legal experiences with the Watchtower.
This place has a way of inducing catharsis which ends up in some good advice that's possibly worth saving. Just my two cents.
-Sab
-
Aussie Oz
The problem with a legal page, is that the legalities vary so much from state to state and country to country that it would still only be legal opinions anyway, even from 'legal eagles'.
One would still have to consult a local laywer anyway.
So, i for one have no problem with you Shelby, or anyone, offering an opinion on legal stuff, we all do it and why not? Its the internet people, its a public forum, not a court room.
OZ
-
TheClarinetist
I think what has been said about a subforum is correct. Even when asking for advice (and I know I'm one of the people who asked ), we're aware that this is a forum, and at best we can hope for a little direction when we're out of our league. Whereas if there was a subforum, it would imply that people knew what they were talking about, and might even put Simon at risk. Of course, I think the community is nice enough we won't all go lawsuit happy, but who knows?
I think its same way it is when people post about their personal problems. When you have something helpful to say, you can say it. Other times, you just need to politely tell them that they need professional help.
(Also, thanks again to everyone who offered advice to me. Whether good "legal advice" or not, it was nice to know people cared enough to try. )
EDIT:
@BOTS: This is a sily argument at this point. Really? No one represented themselves as a lawyer. The thread was an open invitation to anyone who wanted to chime in. I didn't believe anyone was a lawyer, and the majority of the posts were either telling me to go see a lawyer, or after I had already said I was seeking a lawyer.
-
144001
Aguest, if you want to practice law, go do it. You need to pass the bar first, but since you've already completed your legal education, that should be no problem. Need help passing the bar? Take a bar review course and then the night before the bar exam, and each night during the bar exam, drink at least 4 shots of Crown Royal.
A legal page on this forum would be the end of this site. The problems that would arise would eventually stress/burn Simon out to the point where he would likely shut the site down. While we're all devising such wonderful ways to improve this site, it might be wise to also consider the increase in stress and work your ideas would impose upon Simon.
Besides, who the hell wants to read the ramblings of a bunch of lawyers? Yuck! And Shelby, keep your shirt on please, or I'm going to start eating those beans again and your environment will shortly thereafter smell like a beach outhouse on the 4th of July!
-
palmtree67
Sorry, but some on this board who claim to be attorneys or attorneys in the making.....
I am involved in a legal case right now
When I've shown their advice to my (real) attorney, he has gotten quite angry at their ignorance.
Seriously:
SOME OF THE PEOPLE ON HERE CLAIMING TO HAVE LEGAL KNOWLEDGE/EXPERIENCE ARE IDIOTS.
I feel bad when ones ask for their advice by name.
-
palmtree67
If you need an attorney, consult with a real attorney.
No offense, to Band, whom I thinks given very good GENERAL legal advice. But a couple of the others here - my lawyer just shakes his head at their arrogance and ignorance.
-
cantleave
This is an online forum. Read the advice, take it or leave it, it's your choice. Never believe it is from a qualified attorney, people do lie (Manni PHd - lol). At the end of the day, if you REALLY need legal advise, get your ass down to a local lawyer, put your hand in your pocket and pay for it.
-
betterdaze
This:
“Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye."
And this: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/Home/TermsOfUse
If the discussion board's Terms Of Use don't satisfy this sad pi$$ing contest amongst resident NPDs, nothing else can or will.
~Sue -
AGuest
Couple/few things (peace to you all!):
[Disclaimer: Please consider that if the subject doesn't interest you, you really needn't read further. It does interests me and since this is a board where free speech is pretty prevalent, I am posting my thoughts on it. You, however, may need to consider whether you should necessarily concern yourself with why it interests me. If you are concerned, I will just say that it just rubs too close to the position of religious leaders for my taste. To wit: it smacks of religious leaders not even wanting others to read, let alone, understand the Bible (the Law)... convincing others that they're not "qualified" to do so... and so charging fees to "interpret" it for them. This is one of the very reasons I sought the education I did - I realized, in my line of work, that there were things I was REQUIRED to know... BY LAW... to do MY job... that attorneys were telling me I needed to come to them... and pay them... to know. But I learned that, in my particular field, very few actually knew the law/regulations themselves. Hence, as I've stated, I've trained, even supervised, attorneys. I am not trying to BE an attorney... nor did I take issue with an attorney; one has taken issue with ME, personally, however... and as a result keeps sorely misconstruing my participation here. I could let it go... but I don't wish to. My choice. So, again, if the matter irritates you... or you're not really interested in it anyway... consider stopping here. I won't be offended, truly. Again, peace to you!]
1. I very much like the forum as it is now...
2. I think people should post what they will (except things that violate forum rules and terms)...
3. I think those reading should use discretion before putting their trust in ANYTHING posted here...
4. I think most here DO use discretion as to what is posted...
5. I think some who come here are seeking cursory, low-level legal INFORMATION as to other's knowledge and/or experience regarding matters that MIGHT result in a legal action (but not necessarily!)... and there's nothing wrong with that... or with others responding to such...
6. I think that those who need the advice of an attorney should consult an attorney (however, since there are ALTERNATIVE dispute resolution methods, including Alternative Dispute Resolution (ADR) and mediation, they should be able to be INFORMED of that, as well, without resident attorneys taking offense - I mean, it's not like their personal pockets are actually going to be affected)...
7. And that resident attorneys should take as much care as anyone else... and include their own disclaimers (which they're supposed to do... because they've "held themselves out AS attorneys" by saying they ARE attorneys... and so even the GENERAL advice they give can create an attorney-client relationship, particularly if someone relies ON that advice... and potentially cause as much harm, if not more, as the opinion of a non-attorney)... which such attorneys should know... but may have gone to school so long ago, they don't...
8. I think that their failure TO post such disclaimer IS a "rafter in [the] eye" scenario, as they have a greater standard of care because they ARE attorneys or, at least, have openly/repeatedly state that they are (thus, holding themselves OUT as attorneys)... indeed, expect other posters to RELY on their "advisory" comments, no matter how "general"... while trying to hold others... who are actually LESS culpable (because they're not holding themselves out as attorneys, even stating that they are NOT)... to a standard they themselves ignore...
9. That every poster has to the potential to post good... and bad... advice/opinions on a plethora of subjects on the forum, from the mundane to the important... including, possible medical as well as legal (funny, though, none of the doctors/nurses on the board take similar offense!)... and that, as others have pointed out, it is the forum moderators/owner's responsibility to handle such, not fellow posters who consider this board as some kind of an extension of their professional lives...
10. I think a subforum would be silly and create potential liability for JWN... but since certain ones believe they are the only ones who CAN respond to certain matters... even if in a "general" way... it might be something to think about... so as to ensure that those who "can't/shouldn't" don't infringe on the great legal "consciences" of those who "can/should"... because it is their responsive comments stating/insinuating that UPL is occurring (but may not be!)... which is a LEGAL opinion... because it is given by a [professed] attorney... that open the board to liability.
I am not an attorney. So, I don't GIVE legal "advice". I can... and infrequently DO, however, give my OPINION, based on my EXPERIENCE... as to matters associated with housing, property management, and landlord/tenant issues. Among others things (i.e., the mundane, silly, spiritual, Biblical, etc.). I do without concern because (1) I checked with those who DO know as to what I can/cannot opine on and at what point am I "giving advice," and (2) I am considered an "expert" in those areas... due to my certifications... and so CAN opine. I have even been called to testify AS an expert in court because of these certifications. Thus, I can post MY experience with, say, a legal watchdog group... and my OPINION of that experience, as well as MY understanding of what took place, why, and what should have. It was MY experience... and the opinons of it were MINE. Whether they were right or wrong. I can also suggest that someone pursue ADR/mediation... versus consulting an attorney. The courts not only recognize this but encourage it... especially in Small Claims matters.
I think that if someone truly believed that I... or others... were breaking the law... they would have reported it to the moderators due to the potential liability FOR THE BOARD. Rather, the manner in which things have been handled simply indicate a personal problem with ME... that is being used to mislead other posters to believe I have broken the law. This occurred with another, as well... and that one didn't take the false accusations lying down, either. Because, while it may seem of no consequence to some... it could be of GREAT consequence to me... particularly when someone repeatedly "threatens" to report [me] to the Bar. That is a SERIOUS threat... one that could cause me a great deal of inconvenience, time, and money, not to say ruin my career/future ambitions. I cannot take that lightly... and I don't.
Unlike others, I have not (yet) threatened to sue the libeler; I truly don't want to go that route. Rather, I've chosen to take the "christian" way... and put the matter before the "congregation"... the board in general. You, those of you who are interested.
So, if you can understand that and bear with me, I appreciate that and am grateful. If, however, it's of no interest to YOU... then, again, consider moving past and leaving me/us to this matter. I would appreciate that, as well, and thank YOU, in advance.
Again, peace to you all!
SA, on her own (but please don't think I haven't discussed this matter with my Lord. Only reason I haven't also considered suing... which an attorney I asked has said I might consider doing...)