Lady Lee Very well said.
Do YOU Believe That JWs Have A Huge Problem With Pedophiles?
by minimus 120 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse
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JW GoneBad
Balaamsass: If the house is on fire we call 911 for the fire Department, not the Elders. Why call the Elders when a child is raped?
Thats' Huge!
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Sola Scriptura
To diamondiiz:
you said...This thread exists because there is so many victims of wts, and there are pedophiles that are allowed in. The fact that so many here known of a pedophile within their old congregation or someone that was molested by a witness tells you that this problem is greater than that of a general population.
***Disclaimer: The following statements by me is only to make a counterpoint to your theory. I don't believe in any "acceptable tolerance" of Child Abuse. 1 victim is toooo many.***
Although I can't disprove it, I personally don't believe your statement: "this problem is greater than that of a general population."
Here's why:Dr. Gene Abel estimates that between 1% and 5% of our population molest children - CNN Specials Transcript #454-Thieves of Childhood. http://www.yellodyno.com/html/child_molester_stats.html
If the above statistic is close to being true, to just equal the general population, JWs would need between 1-5 child abusers in EVERY congregation around the world (based on an 100 person avg. sized congregation). I've traveled to many congregations in my time and have talked candidly with many elders. In my experience, having >5% of the congregation be child abusers would be hard for me to believe. Again I can't disprove it, anything is possible, but I just can't fathom having >400,000 of my brothers being Child abusers. (8 million x 5% = 400,000).
P.S.
I found a great link for all parents to review & bookmark: 8 red flags for identifying child predators.http://www.yellodyno.com/Yello_Dyno_Eight_Red_Flags.html
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Sola Scriptura
"Accept truth wherever you find it, no matter what it contradicts." - Charles T. Russell
Zion's Watch Tower and Herald of Christ's Presence. pp. 8-9 July 1879 -
flipper
SOLA SCRIPTURA made a good comment when ( he or she ) - sorry don't know your sex - said " child abuse is both a crime and a sin. " And therein within that statement contains a huge problem with HOW the WT society handles child abuse cases. The WT society mainly, if not most of the time, handles child abuse ONLY as a sin. They put very little emphasis, if any, on child abuse being a CRIME to report to police authorities. WT society is so damned caught up in the dogma and rules of it's 132 year organization it's caused them to be blind to realities of normal society and how IT operates outside Jehovah's Witnesses.
And it also involves ARROGANCE on the WT society leaders part. They feel that only GOD is their judge and they feel that man made laws or man appointed legislation and judicial systems don't apply to THEM. Translation : They feel they are ABOVE any man made laws ! That they don't HAVE to answer to police authorities , just God, or themselves
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flipper
Also- I thought VIOLIA's thought was VERY true- that until women and children are treated with the honor and protection and respect they deserve - child abuse will continue to be a major problem in a male dominated cult like Jehovah's Witnesses. Unfortunately - I don't see that changing as the WT society and Jehovah's Witnesses take the abusive, patriarchal views of the Bible from middle east lands in the 1st century and continue to push a domineering " headship " arrangement which fosters continual abuse of women AND children. I don't think the WT society will EVER view women and children as equals to men. It's a tragic scene and a crime
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GLTirebiter
JWs have established progressive policies to investigate, and if proven, publicly reprove/disfellowship rank & file members, as well as it's leaders, for outrageous sins such as Child Abuse.
That is part of the problem! The Watchtower takes it upon themselves to do the investigation, try the facts, and administer punishment. Their obligation is to report it to the lawful authorities, without delay, without exception. Having somebody "reproved" or "disfellowshipped" is not the same as having them face the lawful punishment for their act. In particular, it doesn't place them on the sex offenders registry, a key method of protecting children from known offenders.
The Watchtower's "progressive" policy states the elders are to report when required by law, no more (they consider an anonymous call from a public telephone sufficient to meet that obligation). Victims and witnesses are warned that they would be "creating a division" if they make their own report after the elders decide not to (as they often do, because of the notorious "two witness rule".) In short, they have policies that look good on the surface, but are more about protecting their image than with justice for the victims.
Other churches adopt clear, no-excuses policies:
ARTICLE 4. Dioceses/eparchies are to report an allegation of sexual abuse of a person who is a minor to the public authorities.
Dioceses/eparchies are to comply with all applicable civil laws with respect to the reporting of allegations of sexual abuse of minors to civil authorities and cooperate in their investigation in accord with the law of the jurisdiction in question.
Dioceses/eparchies are to cooperate with public authorities about reporting cases even when the person is no longer a minor.
In every instance, dioceses/eparchies are to advise victims of their right to make a report to public authorities and support this right."
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thetrueone
The problem with the JWS and other religious organizations is that they too considered pedophilia as just another typical sin that can easily be
rectified by solemnly sought out for redemption, not much worse that other sexual sins such as fornication or adultery.
The long standing psychological damage of the victims of this act have little significance toward these religious leaders, ever more so
if the accused omits to the act and asks for forgiveness, they do not take into account the long term psychological damage of the victims.
This is why today in these modern times pedophilia is notably considered quite a grievous crime, evoking a strong level of punishment upon its
behavior.
No I do not think that the JWS have a huge problem with pedophilia in general in contrast to other religious faiths.
They may have been equally quilty of making little of the problem as other religions have done in the past though.
There is always going to be this kind of present advocation from religions to cover over the problem to protect the public
image of themselves . This has loosed up a bit recently mind you, but one should not expect full and complete exposure
by these organizations. Most religions are endeavored to create an outward illusion of themselves of spiritual purity and thats also the reason why
these kinds of occurrences of social behavior happen behind church/kingdom hall doors.
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life is to short
I have not read all the posts but flipper told me about this thread. For those of you that think that the problem is not huge or that JW's are not as bad as the Catholic's when was the last time you saw a Catholic pedophile priest going door to door. JW's send their pedophiles to PEOPLES"S DOORS.
Think about just that fact alone and then say that JW's are not worse the the Catholic's.
We had THREE child molesters in the hall I went too. Holding children, going out in service, one even held a baby shower that was the one whose court records called him an incurable sexual psychopath!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So for those who feel we are about the same as everyone else or maybe even better then some religions, get your head out of the sand.
As far as I am concurred from what I have seen JW's are the worst because JW's send the baby rapist door to door. Who would think a religion would do that??????????????? Now not only are the members not safe but NO ONE IS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! When a JW calls on someone they do not know if he is a convicted child offender not. This is sick!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LITS
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diamondiiz
How many children are abused and neglected in the United States? (annual stats)
135,000 child victims of sexual abuse in US
2006 American population, 299,000,000
ratio = 4.5 children sexually abused per 10,000 population or 0.00045%. Also have to remember that 1 pedophile can have multiple victims so you don't need 4 pedophiles per 100 congregations but just 1 or 2.
Didn't do a deep research but simple stats for 2006. 1-5% of population molesting children is unfounded. Without having the full context of his claim it's impossible to determine what he was talking about. To say 1-5% of general population molest their kids is quite outrages if you ask me.
BTW, you quoting Russell isn't going to get you any brownie points either because today's watchtower doesn't give a shit about what Russell taught. Russell may have had crazy ideas but his crazy views were 100% better than that of wts today. If wts today followed Russell's teachings people would be allowed to have their own views, people wouldn't have to accept the leaders as God's appointed and people wouldn't have to believe in BS dates. You create a cult atmosphere, you encourage cover-ups so the flock doesn't find out.
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Balaamsass
Coffee Break
I'm back. Flipper I agree:
. "SOLA SCRIPTURA made a good comment when ( he or she ) - sorry don't know your sex - said " child abuse is both a crime and a sin. " And therein within that statement contains a huge problem with HOW the WT society handles child abuse cases. The WT society mainly, if not most of the time, handles child abuse ONLY as a sin. They put very little emphasis, if any, on child abuse being a CRIME to report to police authorities. WT society is so damned caught up in the dogma and rules of it's 132 year organization it's caused them to be blind to realities of normal society and how IT operates outside Jehovah's Witnesses."
Lady Lee, I agree, true pedophiles are incurable.
About calling 911. - The wife reminds me I don't explain myself. ( I hit this site on coffee breaks..so sometimes I'm in a hurry ).
Just cases I KNOW of 1st hand, through other elders, and law enforcement, WTBTS policies have ruined criminal cases. When ELDERS are called first, or the accused is confronted FIRST in CRIMINAL cases..evidence gets destroyed. One case of "loose lips" may have caused the death of an eye witness.,
Letting a murderer, rapist, con artist, drug dealer, child abuser or pedophile know days in advance a search warrant will be executed is a sure way to botch a case. Discouraging someone from an immediate trip to the ER for a rape Kit..is just criminal. WTBTS Instructing untrained Elders have ANYTHING to do with Criminal justice is folly in my opinion.. "Puffed up with Pride and Self Assuming".
The "sin" part of the equation is a different matter...and should never interfere with the criminal investigation.