Josephus was being limited with referencing the Sadducees as not believing in the immortal soul or punishments in Hades. Orthodox Jews in general hold to those positions as The Torah does not teach such ideas.
Examples of Bias/Discrepancies in the New World Translation
by Londo111 83 Replies latest watchtower bible
-
-
bioflex
@Leolaia: thanks for your reference. now off to reading it.
-
Leolaia
designs....1) Second Temple Judaism (as opposed to Samaritanism) did not draw on the Torah alone; eschatological concepts of resurrection, postmortem judgment, and Gehenna (found in the NT) are not found in the Torah. There were about five hundred years of theological and eschatological development in the intervening period between the production of the Pentateuch and the NT. 2) Josephus reproduced his source with somewhat more Hellenistic language than was in the original, as its quotation in Hippolytus shows: "[As for the Essenes], the idea of the resurrection (anastaseós) has strength among them for they acknowledge both that the flesh will rise again (tén sarka anastésesthai), and that it will be immortal, in the same manner as the soul is already immortal (édé athanatos estin hé psukhé). And they maintain that the soul, when seperated in the present life, departs into one place, which is well ventilated and full of light where, they say, it rests until judgment" (Adversus Haereses 9.26-27). 3) Second-Temple Judaism was in no way identical to modern Orthodox Judaism. The notion of an immortal soul was perhaps more prominent among the Essenes than the Pharisees, but both had concepts of postmortem existence and punishments, and Hellentistic Judaism drew on Greek concepts even more. Such concepts (including the use of psukhé to refer to an internal essence dichotomously separate from the body) are found all over the place in the literature of the period, such as in Wisdom, 4 Maccabees, the Psalms of Solomon, the Assumption of Moses, Philo of Alexandria, 4 Ezra, Josephus, the Testament of Abraham, the Greek Life of Adam and Eve, etc. A good example of this dualism can be found in the Apocryphon of Ezekiel (first century BC) which relates a parable with the following explanation: "In the same way the body is connected to the soul (to sóma té psukhé sunaptetai) and the soul to the body (hé psukhé to sómati), to convict them of their common deeds. And the jugment becomes final for both body and soul (sómatos te kai psukhés), for the works they have done whether good or evil" (cited in Epiphanius, Panarion 64.70.5-17). The same parable and concept occurs in rabbinical (post-Pharisee) Judaism in b. Sanhedrin 91b. 4) The Pharisees and Essenes both had concepts of post-resurrection torture in the fires of Gehenna, but the Essenes in particular had a notion of the righteous and the wicked being separated in Sheol/Hades during the postmortem intermediate state (the state between death and resurrection), with the wicked being already tortured prior to the resurrection (cf. 1 Enoch 22:1-14, 27:1-5 103:5-8); some believed that there would not be any resurrection for the wicked and/or they would be punished immediately after death (cf. Apocalypse of Zephaniah 4:7, 6:1-2, 10:4-8). 5) Sadducees differed from the Essenes and Pharisees by not believing in any postmortem existence, including resurrection: "They deny that there is a resurrection, not only of flesh (anastasin ou monon sarkos) but they also suppose that the soul does not endure (psukhén mé diamenein). It is only the life (monon to zén), and it is on account of this that man has been created. However, the idea of the resurrection is fulfilled in this: in dying and leaving behind children upon the earth. But after death one expects to suffer nothing, either bad or good. For there will be a dissolution both of soul and body (lusin kai psukhés kai sómatos), and man passes into non-existence (eis to mé einai khórein), similarly also with the material of the animal kingdom" (Hippolytus, Adversus Haereses 9.29). Ecclesiastes was likely a proto-Sadducee wisdom work.
-
PSacramento
Well done Leo, an excellent summary of the various Jewish beliefs from the fall of the first temple to the fall of the second.
We need to realize then even THEN the various passages that we know debate and interpret were already being debated and interpreted in different ways by the different sects of Judaism.
That they used hellenistic terms and views to discuss things is only natural in an environment where they were so prevelant.
A Jew was most certain to understand that when He used "hades" that the reader/listener would have "common ground" in understanding what was meant (typicallY), even if the "hades proper" of Judaisim was NOT the Hellenistic Hades.
-
Vidqun
This is one of the reasons why I believe that Dan. 12 indicates an early date for the book of Daniel. Under Greek influence later Jews would have adopted the doctrine of the immortality of the soul. However, Daniel confirms his belief in both the resurrection and the book of life. Some will outlive the tribulation, others will lose their lives in the persecution, later to rise from the dead (cf. Dan. 12:2, 13). Keil & Delitzsch surmise that the book of life contains a list of the citizens of the Messianic kingdom (cf. Ex. 32:32; Is. 4:3; Mal. 3:16; Phil. 4:3). Daniel’s name would feature prominently in this book. At “the end of the days”, he will be remembered and stand up to be rewarded for his faithfulness (cf. Dan. 12:9, 13).
-
Leolaia
This is one of the reasons why I believe that Dan. 12 indicates an early date for the book of Daniel. Under Greek influence later Jews would have adopted the doctrine of the immortality of the soul. However, Daniel confirms his belief in both the resurrection and the book of life.
I don't understand the logic here. Immortality wasn't the only concept in Second-Temple Judaism, nor was it exclusive with a belief in resurrection. The belief of a future resurrection is well-attested in the Hellenistic and Roman eras (I can think of examples in the LXX redaction of Job, 2 Maccabees, the NT, etc.), and the "book of life" also is prominently mentioned in such Hellenistic-era works as 1 Enoch and Jubilees (as well as the NT). So I don't see how it is evidence for an "early" date.
-
designs
'Sadducees differed from the Essenes and Pharisees by not believing in any postmortem existence' correct, I missed you in Synagogue the other day. My children and grandchildren and the trees I've planted will carry on my legacy. The small grove of Sequoias I planted in 1978 are now over 100' tall.
-
Vidqun
Leolaia, in the Introduction to Maccabees, the editors of the Jerusalem Bible [p. 656] says: “The book is important for its affirmation of the resurrection of the dead, see note to [2 Macc.] 7:9; 14:46; sanctions in the afterlife, prayer for the dead, 12:41-46f and note; the spiritual fruits of martyrdom, 6:18-7:41; the intercession of the saints, 15:12-16 and note.”
7:9 With his last breath he exclaimed, ‘Inhuman fiend, you may discharge us from the present life, but the King of the world will raise us up, since it is for his laws we die, to live again forever.’
Note: Belief in the resurrection of the body, not clearly expressed in Is. 26:19 and Jb 19:26-27 is here asserted for the first time, vv. 9, 11, 14, 23, 29, 36, and in Dn 12:2-3… Cf. also 2 Macc 12:38-45+; 14:46. By the power of the Creator the martyrs will rise again, v. 23, to a life, v. 14, cf. Jn. 5:29, which is eternal, vv. 9, 36. At this point we encounter the doctrine of immortality which will be developed in the atmosphere of Greek thought and without reference to the resurrection of the body, by Ws 3:1-5:16, etc.
I believe that there exists a huge chasm between the resurrection of the body and the immortality of the soul. The latter was introduced by the Greeks. There is no mention of it in early Jewish writings. Consequently, the book of Daniel dates to a much earlier period than the Maccabees or Ben Sirach.
Another reason for my early dating of Daniel is his use of the Tetragrammaton (Dan. 9). Here a lot of editorial activity was involved (much later). Then there is the Aramaic portions of the book. Most scholars believe it to be Reichsaramaic or Official Aramaic. Where would a Maccabean Jew pick up Official Aramaic?
-
designs
Among the 18 Jewish Benedictions (She-moneh Esreh) presumed to be composed during the final period of the Second Temple gives rise to the doctrine of the Resurrection. When the Messiah comes the dead will physically rise up and be reanimated by the individual souls they had in life. The Book Of Jewish Knowledge by Ausubel, p.367
Baruch atah....'You sustain the living with loving kindness, you revive the dead with mercy, ...you keep faith with them that sleep in the dust..yes, faithful are you to revive the dead! Blessed are you, Lord, who revives the dead!'
Maccabees, Ecclesiasticus mention this concept of a resurrection the Torah does not.
-
PSacramento
Maccabees, Ecclesiasticus mention this concept of a resurrection the Torah does not.
Some would agre that it is a case of implict VS explicit.
It can be said that the books of the bible show a progression of though in regards to death, cumulating in the view of a bodily ressurection.
That early books don't explicitily mention a bodily resurection is consistent with a progressive view of death, just as the bible gives a progressive view of God's will and desire for Us.
Of course that is simply an interpretation.