LAWSUIT: The Strange Saga of Lorterdan Properties at Ramapo v. Watchtower of NY

by AndersonsInfo 34 Replies latest watchtower scandals

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  skeeter1

  Watchtower’s actions and oaths with Property Tax Appraiser

  Each year of its ownership, Watchtower filed applications for property tax exemption. Under New York Real Property Law, religious organizations do not have to pay property taxes if the land is put to an exempt (i.e. a religious) use. The religion must show “concrete and definite plans to proceed with construction of improvements upon that property for tax exempt purposes within the reasonably foreseeable future.” Vacant property may get an exemption only “if the construction of such buildings or improvements is in progress or is in good faith contemplated.”

  To get the exemption, the religious organization also attests that it is not currently contemplating selling the property. In other words, the property has to be put to exempt purposes and not with a view to sell it. By filing applications, Watchtower was, in effect, giving an oath that it planned to develop the property. Remember, the second $9,500,000 payment was triggered when Watchtower “determines that it will proceed with the development.”

  Perplexingly, after the November 1, 2010 Notice Letter to Lorterdan (to not develop the property), the Watchtower again files application for the following year’s property tax exemption! In other words, Watchtower tells Lorterdan that it isn’t going to develop the property and demands Lorterdan purchase it, and then later tells the tax officials that it is going to develop the property and the property is not for sale. Further, on April 28, 2011, the Watchtower files a grievance with the property tax officials. Watchtower again does not tell the tax officials about the pending sale-back to Lorterdan or its ceasing of development plans, despite being required to do so.

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  So, the Watchtower tells the property tax king that it is going to develop the property. Ramapo's tax collector believes the WTS and grants the tax exempt status. Then, WTS tells Loterdan that it isn't going to develop the property and demands Loterdan repurchase the property. Then, WTS goes back around to the tax collector and swears it IS going to develop the property, is NOT planning on selling it. The tax collector doesn't believe the Watchtower. Perhaps Loterdan told the tax apprasier about the WTS reneg letter? And, that is why the tax collector wouldn't grant the application or the grievance?

  All I can say is 'Liar, liar, pants on fire!" WTS.

  Skeeter
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  AndersonsInfo

  Hey Skeeter, I can see that you read the court documents or reread my analysis after you asked me your question. Thanks for quoting from one page of my document and adding your evaluation which is exactly what I concluded when I first read the material.

  Looks to me like WT put themselves between a rock and a hard place when doing this property purchase juggling act, for reasons yet unknown. Not surprising though. In this case as well as in numerous others, this group acts true to their double-dealing character!
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  sir82

  Admittedly, I am no lawyer, and have only read Barbara's summary, but from what I gather:

  The WTS purchased 2 large tracts of land at about the same time. They likely used the purchase price of one as leverage to get the other price lower. They then in effect requested a "refund" of the first purchase, and the seller of that property doesn't much like the idea.

  Do I have it more or less?

  If so:

  Isn't this rather exactly what the Kingdom Ministry says JWs are not to do every year, when making hotel reservations for the convention?

  I.e., "don't make a bunch of hotel reservations, then drive around to the different hotels just before the convention, and pick the one you like best and cancel the rest".

  I know it's not exactly the same thing, but it seems awfully similar.

  Reason # 12,867 (and counting) why the WTS is hypocritical....
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  Band on the Run

  Real estate law is so hard! Most malpractice cases involve real estate or trusts and estates. There must be boundless cases of NY Property law. We don't know if ordinary custom or usage is part of the deal. It would take months full time to begin to understand this mess. This is a case where hiring someone with special expertise is well worth the extra money in the long run.

  There is one thing I would like added to these JW contracts/commercial dealings-- a comparison to mainstream religions. I have no idea whether $x million is a low sum (may very well be) or exorbitant. I am too lazy to look up the info. Certainly, one would need to compare it to other religions with minimal impact on the community in terms of resources. We have no Watchtower Charities akin to Catholic Charities. The Witnesses run no educational programs. Does the Society ever give alms or is it always the local KH?

  It would be nice to see the forest, too. Why are they liquidating so much? Again, I have no idea whether all this property flying around is normal or atypical. Are other religions engaged in a similar process? They had their miracle with property costs in Brooklyn. WOW!

  I wonder if the mindset will be changed with moving to the boonies after a more complex,sophisticated background in Brooklyn. -- I am still recuperating from the temp at Bethel story where a couple was invited to dinner in Manhattan and the wife chose Windows on the World. $$$$$$$$ Were Bethelites taking taxis to Lutece, 21, Elaine's, etc. Drinks at the Oak Room or the Carlyle.
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  lrkr

  the wts got burned a few years ago when they bought a prop in Kent NY and spent 5 years trying to get an Assy Hall developed there. The locals and the land use boards fought them like crazy. Then they bought and developed in Newburgh. I would guess the GB (or whoever is in charge) told them to hedge their bets- get options on 2 properties and see where the development would be easier ("where Jehovah's spirit directs" is how they would state it). Its a clever maneuver.

  3 comments:

  - you can accomplish this with an option to buy and not put the whole purchase price of the property at risk,

  -the option doesnt have the effect of screwing with the local property tax assessments like an actual purchase does (can you imagine- $21 million- on the rolls, off the rolls, on the rolls- it would suck to live there)

  -I still dont get why you disguise 50% of the purchase price as a "consulting fee"- that seems awful shady.
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  AndersonsInfo

  bttt
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  skeeter1

  If the world is going to end very soon, why buy 2 large tracts of land to develop in neighboring cities?

  If a religious organization doesn't need this tract of land, aren't they acting like every other silly christian religion (that invests in stuff here on earth)? Should the WTS follow the example of the couple in the March 2012 magazine who realized they were silly Christians who owned too much? (got rid of their motor home to pioneer)?

  Knowing about the KY deal, this is making some sense. Could the WTS have planned this all along? I've seen bosses hire two people, expecting only 1 to hang on. The wts bought Ramapa, and Wallkill, all the while knowing it would eventually "pick" just one. Sneaky, sneaky. Punitive damages?
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  pontoon

  Wat executives in charge of the big decisions and big money really have no personal stake in how a deal works out. It's not their money they are playing with, no matter how it works out there is no accountability, and personally they have nothing, so big wheeling and dealing inflates their egos big time. I personally knew brothers involved in this type of deal making and some of them got so impressed with themselves they would barely even talk to a "common" brother anymore. It's as if they are playing a monopoly game with real money. Someone mentioned the Kent ass. hall failure. They blew hundreds of thousands tring to make that deal work. When it didn't work all they had to say is wasn't Jeh. will. Game over, let's start a new one.
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  JeffT

  I just spent some time on Google and I can't find the answer to this question: What the hell was Loterdan trying to do?

  I've been involved in a lot of large real estate deals over the years. I realize everybody here is focusing on the WTBS side of the contract, but I read this with my independent consultants hat on and it doesn't make sense examined objectively. The parcel is supposed to be worth 20-30 million dollars (I don't know RE prices in that area, sounds cheap to me) . Why did Loterdan sell it for eleven million plus a "consulting fee" whatever the hell that is.

  There are a couple of possiblities, which if I was working for somebody here I would be looking into this.

  1) What was the financial condition of Lorterdan? If they were cash strapped this might make sense.

  2) Did Loterdan try to sell a lipstick smeared pig to the WTBS? I've been in on a couple of deals where the game is to get the ugly dog off your hands before somebody figures out its ugly. These things usually don't end well.

  If anybody has some more information on Lorterdan, I'd love to take a look at it.
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  Band on the Run

  Something seems afoot. Don't know for certain. A large part of me hopes this is not settled. It will be interesting to read a court decision in light of the comments here. Does anyone know if they tend to settle or engage in mediation or arbitration? I want to read a case on the merits, not some dismissal for summary judgment or something.