Bible Error: The Visit to the Tomb

by JosephAlward 67 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Larsguy
    Larsguy

    Dear Joseph,
    I already told you several times that it appears there is a conflict in the events with Mary Magdalene because you don't realize there were three different Mary Magdalenes and that the gospels were simply covering each incident since these three Marys were well-known in the context of that small community. So the error is not Biblical but in lack of understanding how the gospels were written to include hidden facts, often by parallel accounts, so that only when paying strict attention to the details do you find hidden references.

    Another critical example of this, of how you must harmonize parallel events that seem to hide specific facts was the report that Peter would deny Christ 3 times before a rooster crowed once and before a rooster crowed twice. But that is precisely what a close comparison of the gospels tell us. That is, when Peter was claiming he would not deny Jesus, Jesus told him he would deny him that very night before a cock crowd once. Peter must have insisted that was not true at which point Jesus told him additionally, he would then deny him another three times again before a cock crowed twice, which is a very short period of time. Thus when you combine the gospel accounts you realize Jesus is talking about two times when Peter would deny Jesus at least three times.

    When you then closely compare the accounts, however, you get the same sense of confusion as you might with the Mary Magdalenes which seem to give similar, parallel, but technically contradictory accounts. In the case of the denials, it shows where Peter denied Jesus specifically to various men and women starting with when he first entered the house of the high priest, he had to deny Jesus just to get into the place. He denied him another 3 times right up to the point where the high priest's servant identified him and Jesus was standing right there looking at him in the courtyard at which point a cock crowed once the first time. Peter then recalled this and felt bad and immediately began to rush outside. But the homes back there had several areas of hallways and porches and a "gate house" that one had to go through before actually getting outside, so that as he left the courtyard and moved into various passageways to leave where other groups of persons were standing around, a girl was following him and trying to claim he was one of the disciples which necessitated Peter continually denying Jesus as he worked his way through the crowd of people there trying to get outside. The result was that it took him as long to get outside as it would for a cock to crow a second time, but by now, Peter had again denied Jesus in rapid succession another three times.

    That's the beauty of the literary nature of the gospels. It hides references via similarly parallel accounts which by the casual reader one misses the fine points or are thrown off by this literary complexity. As Jesus told his disciples, though, he often spoke in parables so that those on the outside would not understand what he was talking about but his own followers would understand the application of secret meanings.

    The same thing is going on with the three Mary Magdalenes. That is, the Bible simply implies there are three Mary Magdalenes, all coming to the tomb at different times and different circumstances but without any of the gospel writers just coming right out and saying, "Oh by the way, there were three Marys who called themselves Magdalene who were in the personal attendance of Jesus." Had that statement been there, then all the Christian Bible scholars would be busy matching up which Mary came when.

    But as it is, we find persons like yourself, without the prophetic or spiritual background attempting to criticize a spiritual writing without the expertise or competence needed to do so, in addition to your own biases, resulting in your rather embarrassing error with respect to this account.

    Now you can choose what you wish to believe regarding these accounts, but please note that I have given you a response that solves the issue. That is, there is no conflict if there were three Mary Magdalenes, which is not impossible with so many Marys being such a common name in that culture. There is no conflict in that case.

    Your not fully understanding that the gospels use duplicate almost parallel accounts as part of it's "style" in hiding secrets is something you've missed.

    But I'll give you a hint. When you find a parallel account, it's reasonable to presume that in one of the accounts is some secret detail that is being hidden. The gospels writers, true to ther master, did want to keep certain thing to themselves while confounding the gentile outsiders who culturally tended to expect the overstatement in logical order, whether correct or not, whereas the Jewish culture was just the opposite, shunning any redundancy or overstatement, expecting the "intellectual" listener to figure out by the bacground of two sometimes opposing statements a hidden message.

    So anyway, just wanted to say the Biblical spiritualists and prophets are not swayed by this particular criticism and are only laughing at your lack of competence in criticizing the gospel writers or understanding what is really going on.

    But, if it is any consolation to you, the confusion you're experiencing was intentional. The gospel writers could have made it simpler for the unbelievers but instead they put "stumbling blocks" in their writings to trip you up, which apparently is still working even though I've explained to you the hidden meaning of these references.

    So, all I can do is laugh and keep on believing...that's the end of it.

    Have a nice day, Joseph. I suggest you try to criticize another literary work and leave the Bible to us prophets (smile).

    L.G.

  • Mr Ben
    Mr Ben

    Abbadon & Joseph,

    Let me enlighten you as to all of the supposed “inconsistencies” and “contradictions” in the Holy Bable.

    Larsguy has given you the key to understanding, if only you would unlock the door of ignorance with it and enter the brave new world of FAITH. Clearly, all “inconsistencies” and “contradictions” can be explained by the FACT that whenever the Holy Bable gives an apparent “contradiction” it is talking about two different events that just happen to have the similar characters and events, but in different dimensions of the universe!

    Hence, one account about what Mary said is perfectly true and really did happen – in one particular dimension, then the Holy Babel gives another different but perfectly true account of the same events in a different dimension.

    Far from being a cause for stumbling, this only serves to bring praise to the great Creator who can see and save all peoples in all dimensions!

    PRAISE BE TO THE MOST HIGH!

    Pastor Ben

    Religion n.
    An organisation designed to promote atheism.

  • stocwach
    stocwach

    Joseph,

    Have you ever heard of the "anthropic principle"? It basically says that all the seemingly arbitrary and unrelated constants in physics have one strange thing in common-these are PRECISELY the values you need if you want to have a universe capable of producing life. In other words, all the myriads of physics were fined-tuned from the very beginning of the universe for the creation of man-that the universe we inhabit appeared to be expressly designed for the emergence of human beings.

    As an example, no physicist today can explain why the values of the so-called fundamental constants-such as gravitational force of electromagnetic force-were as they were. One simply accepts them.

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine

    Stocwach,

    I'm not a stupid man, but for the life of me, I can't see what the hell your comments to Joseph have to do with the topic of this thread.

    Please enlighten.

  • stocwach
    stocwach

    Now your argument to my first post could be to assume that there are an infinite number of other universes that we don't know about, and therefore the fact that ours hit on the right combo of phyics laws to produce life proves that life just happened by random chance, and had nothing to do with a Creator.

    This theory can be discounted by the ludicrous idea of a giving a monkey a typewriter and assuming that randomly one day he would eventually type the works of Shakespeare (considerably less complex than the makings of the universe), given the opportunity of an infinite amount of days to complete the task. What if one day, among myriads of days, and constant random alphabetical gibberish, not only complex words were achieved, but a 4 line verse from "Macbeth" appeared. One would consider this a miracle. However, here is the catch: It doesn't matter if there are an infinite amount of days! The problem each day is the same! It's a "Groundhog Day" situation, if you ever saw the movie. The same set of problems repeats itself infinitely! Therefore, the mathematical possibility that the monkey will type the complete works of Shakespeare or anything of meaniful order is not one a very large number, but rather zero!!!!!!!! Randomness does not engender order on any appreciable scale, and unfortunately for you and your atheistic thinking, as well as scientists, is simply an assumption, but not a conclusion.

  • stocwach
    stocwach

    SIXOFNINE:

    Joseph asked for evidence of God. What better evidence of God than scientific evidence?

  • stocwach
    stocwach

    Joseph,

    I have a question for you. Look at your life as a wager. Then read the book of Revelation which says God rewards faithful believers with eternal happiness and those who reject God suffer enternal torment after death. If you bet against God, and the revelation proves to be true, you are a big loser in eternal tormet. If you are right, what do you gain? No torment, but you still cease to exist. Now if you bet on God, and the revelation proves to be an illusion, you've lost nothing, since you will cease to exist at death anyway. However, if you are right, you are the biggest lottery winner of all time, with eternal life. Why then do you chose to not bet on God?

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine

    I'm wagering that God, if he exist, is disgusted with arrogant stupidity.

    You're not a very good gambler, stocwach. May I suggest you get comfortable with intelligent questions rather than stupid answers?

  • stocwach
    stocwach

    Here's some more evidence for you:

    Everyone knows about the benefits of prayer. And you've heard numerous testimonials of Christians who have prayed and received this or that in terms of spiritual fulfillment.

    Now I will be the first to agree with anyone who says that doesn't prove anything. It can simply be attributed to a "placebo effect", which cannot be disproved, so therefore the benefits of prayer by an individual can be considerably discounted.

    JOSEPH, HOW THOUGH DO YOU ACCOUNT FOR THE NUMEROUS STUDIES ON THE BENEFICIAL EFFECTS OF PRAYER BY INDEPENDENT GROUPS TOWARD OTHER GROUPS WHO ARE COMPRISED OF INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE SERIOUS MEDICAL CONDITIONS? Research has shown that major health improvements have been found almost immediately in a group that was prayed for by an independent group (unbeknowst to the group with the medical condition) versus a control group with the same set of medical conditions but was not prayed for, that showed no improvement whatsoever!!!!!!!!!!

  • stocwach
    stocwach

    SixofNine:

    So I guess what you are saying is you would rather go to Las Vegas and suggest to the casinos they come up with a game that allows you to place a wager on the house or the player:

    Minimum bet $ 5.00

    If you bet on the house, and win, you become financially independent for life. If you lose, you forfeit your $5.00.

    If you bet on yourself, and win, you win $ 5.00, and now have $ 10.

    If you lose, you not only forfeit your $5.00, but are stripped of every asset to your name and destined to live in poverty for the rest of your life.

    Now judging by your last post, you've already told me you would bet on yourself. I think I've made it clear, all place my wager on the house.

    Now forum, who is the better gambler in your opinion?

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