What do you know and what do you THINK the Shroud of Turin is?

by Terry 57 Replies latest watchtower scandals

• 

  ziddina

  Okay, here is (hopefully) a working link...

  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/20/shroud-of-turin-jesus-burial-cloth-authentic_n_1161363.html

  And here are some excerpts from the article...

  "Decades of research on Jesus' proposed burial cloth have revealed an array of conflicting ideas surrounding the shroud's authenticity. However, researchers from Italy's National Agency for New Technologies, Energy and Sustainable Economic Development believe their findings undermine previous theories that the shroud was faked in the medieval period, the Telegraph reports. ..."

  So, why is the Italian department for "New Technologies, Energy and Sustainable Economic Development", doing this research? Those are NOT fields of research especially focused on determining the AGE of human artifacts!!!!!

  "Since the shroud and "all its facets" still cannot be replicated using today's top-notch technology, researchers suggest it is impossible that the original image could have been created in either period. ..."

  That is very inaccurate. There was at least one highly successful effort to replicate the image on the "Shroud", using materials available to Medieval relic-forgers...

  Zid
• 

  PSacramento

  Until somebody explains how the image happened the jury is out. My instincts are its a fraud but there are legitimate questions about the medieval C14 results.

  This.
• 

  ziddina

  One discussion of flaws in the proportions of the image in the "Shroud of Turin"...

  http://www.gaydeceiver.com/religion/turin/

  Here we go...

  I knew that I'd seen someone successfully replicate the type of image on the "Shroud" - and using methods available to medieval Europeans/Italians, too...

  http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2009/10/06/a-new-taint-on-the-shroud-of-turin/

  And here's a slightly more detailed version of the same story...

  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1218457/Shroud-Turin-replica-proves-medieval-techniques-make-relic-say-scientists.html

  I do know that making relics was a lucrative source of revenue, both during the Middle Ages and up to our time... Forgeries of holy relics abound, like that fake ossuary that was supposedly found with "jesus' " name, along with "mary" and "joseph" - that later on, ALSO turned out to be a forgery - exposed by the Israeli department of antiquities...
• 

  ziddina

  Hell, get out a bunch of old rusty nails, a clay pot with some water (and have a buddy who's going to the "Holy Land" bring back some flowers or desert grasses for good effect), some pigs' blood, and a length of primitive linen - and get a willing victim - er, "buddy" - to lie down on the linen after being smeared in a very specific way with that gross mixture, and see if you can fake it yourself!!

  Being in the SCA, and knowing quite a few people who've studied medieval pigments, medieval weaving, and so forth; I suspect that any SCA'er worth his salt could whip up a decent replica within a few months...

  Zid
• 

  ziddina

  Day - YAMMM, I just had the most eeeeee-vil idea...

  Since it's been postulated that the image was based on a statue, since the "body" didn't quite "lay" on the fabric in the same way as a flexible [past rigor-mortis] human body would...

  A person could get one of those iconic and stylized "cat" statues, prepare a piece of linen, paint IT up with such a mixture, and begin making "Shroud of Turin" cats!!!

  Hee hee....

  Sell 'em as souvenirs to the tourists...
• 

  DagothUr

  It's obviously a fake. It's not even hard to replicate. The Catholic Church has a long history of selling awkward relics, like angel feathers or St. Peter's beard hairs.
• 

  Band on the Run

  A classmate of mine wore an actual piece of the Virgin Mary's dress on the day Christ was crucified. It had not degraded at all and was Virgin Mary Blue.

  The Shroud of Turin is fascinating. I don't see the point of having his burial cloth in terms of faith. It would seem to me that feeding the poor and homeless in the present would be a much more telling element of faith. All these tests have been circumscribed by the Roman Catholic Church. I don't think they want it debunked. Think of all the pilgrims who would never flock to Turin. The stakes are too high. BUt if I am correct, every other relic as proved a hoax. Perhaps St. Helena's stairs. When I visited the Vatican, it was very upsetting to watch the pilgrims. Only women and only women over 80, on their hands and knees, lingering and praying over every step. Wonder why men did not want to pray, too. They were garbed all in black. Not even a young seminarian joined them.

  My understand is that if the Church granted permission to test more of the shroud, the results would be conclusive. Of course, belief in the Shroud of Turin is oh, so ignorant folk Catholic whereas belief that a small group in PIttsburgh and Brooklyn are God's only channel to humankind is so profound.
• 

  Terry

  The biggest obstacle to overcome is bias.

  Any "investigation" must avoid zealous vested interests. An investigator can't have a predisposition toward outcome and be objective.

  I've read over 40 books on the Kennedy assassaination. 99% are written by amateur sleuths. They like to ask leading questions that

  can't be answered in order to create an opening IN WHICH they insert their pet theory.

  The quickest test of fakery is when many different sources produce many different results!

  Kennedy, according to "experts", was killed by Lee Harvey Oswald or the C.I.A. or Castro or the K.G.B. or the Mafia or Lyndon Johnson or.....well, you get the idea.

  Any FACTS would produce definite conclusions; not a myriad of unaswerable questions that leave the door open to supernatural interpretation.

  How many criminals were put to death by the Romans in the over 1000 years of the empire by crucifixion?

  If the shroud is authentic we can ONLY conclude it was one of those executed people.
• 

  ProdigalSon

  Now WHO might profit (or save their own arses) by "proving" that Jesus was divine enough to leave his imprint on a cloth?

  The bastards almost make me ashamed to be of Italian descent......
• 

  snare&racket

  The shroud was recently proven to be nothing more than art recently.

  The anatomy of the image is aesthetically pleasing but anatomically incorrect I.e. if a cloth was draped over a body it would not produce that image.