Do Jehovah's witnesses tend to contact family members no longer associated with the religion, especially around holidays, and try to get them to "come back"? I'm married (never been a JW) and husband hasn't been a part of that religion since his teens (he's now 39). I've written here before regarding my in-laws sending people to our house from Kingdom Hall, etc. Anyway, husband has been in a rotten mood all week (prelude to Christmas). He's complained about us listening to Christmas carols on the radio, grumpy, not speaking, then a few days ago said I deserved the "silent treatment" because I said something that angered him. I'm reaching the point of fed up and am certainly not going to walk on eggshells just to keep him in a decent mood. I'm convinced his very JW mother is doing some guilt tripping via texting/calling or something to that effect. He's done nothing for the holidays this year - bought no presents, didn't ask what I got our kids, nothing. Same for my recent birthday. Our oldest, 6, is picking up on his behavior as well, including his lack of interest in doing anything fun with our family. I know he could be depressed, but what do you do when you aren't the one who is trying to guilt trip him? He claims I am the problem, because I don't 'like' his family. I have no problem with him having contact with his family; however, I do believe they are trying to lure him into coming back to please his mother. That leaves me and 2 children to fend for ourselves? I am just disgusted with how their minds operate!
Throwing this out there...
by NY23brown 25 Replies latest jw friends
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skeeter1
JWs are the poster child for the guilt trip. We've all heard of the "Jewish" mother, well, the JW relative can dish guilt out too.
If you are on the bill, you should be able to get a copy of all of his incoming and outgoing texts from the carrier. This might give you a clue.
JWs are taught to believe that Christmas and Birthdays are pagan. Jehovah is very displeased with anyone who celebrates pagan holidays or rituals . . . Santa, Yule Logs, etc. . . . it's all part of the Winter Solstace. Even what is in the Bible is part of Satan - the Three Wise men are, JWs believe, aligned with Satan. Birthdays are evil because there were two birthday parties in the Bible, and they ended up with some 'good' people getting killed, beheaded, and served on a platter. This is what JWs are taught, anyhow.
Many ex-JWs celebrate Christmas and birthdays. (Some do not). Those that do celebrate, have researched the issue and have come to a different conclusion. If you look at freeminds.org, you may find some articles. For example, if the three wise men were from Sata, wouldn't they have told the King where Jesus lay, and wouldn't they have gone back to the King after they found Jesus, and wouldn't they have not given Mary & Joseph expensive gifts for which could be presumably used by the young couple to flee the King's terror? There have been threads here too, discussing how ex-JWs have come to different conclusions. However, if you start out by arguing doctrine, he will clam up and get on his high horse and you will have a super big fight. If you are any bit anxious in your tone, it will likely throw him on his pedastal.
His mother strongly, strongly, strongly, thinks that if her son celebrates Christmas, Birthdays, and is not a full-time Jehovah's Witness who follows everything the WAtchtower tells her .. . . she will not see him in her next new life on Paradise Earth. The Watchtower is telling the parents that they are "blood guilty" if they don't get their children back into the religion. This is a powerful motivator for her to get him back into the religion. Yes, she will totally break apart your family. They could try to take the kids away from you in a child custody battle. The Watchtower has a booklet helping parents who go through a divorce. You see, you are nothing if you are worldly. You are going to be birdfood at Armegheddon. Get the picture?
I strongly recommend you read some books by Steve Hassan on mind control. You will learn how to ask open ended questions, so as to not alert him that you are in disagreement with his religion.
Sometimes, non-JW spouses CAN bring their JW spouses out of this cult. There are here who have done this. But, it's tricky and will most likely not be accomplished by Christmas. I'm sure you'll meet som here on the Board.
All that being said, your 6 year old deserves a Christmas. If he's asking questions, YOU need to very gently, privately ask his father why he's had a change of heart. Don't berate the father. Just ask open ended questions. "Why? How is that" "Explain further" You are not in any position yet to argue doctrine with your husband. You are on a fact finding mission these next few months to figure out what is going on inside his head.
Whatever you do, don't let the 6 year old ask the question to your husband. Your husband might just start spouting off some pretty, twisted stuff to him, and totally ruin his Christmas.
Skeeter
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serenitynow!
Wow NY23brown. I'm sorry this is happening to you. Is it possible that you can ask your husband if he is being pressured by family? Have you asked why he didn't want to do Christmas this year? I do know that a lot of us with JW familes have experienced some hounding to get us back in the fold. I'm not married, so I can't really offer anything about the inlaw problems, but I'm sure some folks here will be able to help you.
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skeeter1
Sometimes, and I'm not saying this is your hubbie, but sometimes . . . former or inactive Jehovah's Witnesses are "torn". I say this as this is how my oldest sister is.
1. She wants to live by Bible standards. It's what was engrained in her.
2. The Watchtower has taught her that it the the Truth, and all the other religions are pagan. She strongly believes that the Watchtower is the closest religion to beign a True Religion. She will not look at anything that is against the Watchtower, nor anything that is pro-another religion.
3. She is super aware of the average Jehovah's Witness problems. They are a bunch of nuts! Depressed people, psychotic people, anti-anxiety, suicidal, allow child and spouse abuse to occur, etc. She knows something isn't right in the Kingdom Hall. Yes, she even knows of the pedophiles and problems in the blood doctrine. I know she is having problems "going back" to the Kingdom Hall. Some sisters come regularly to visit her, but she only gets to the meetings once every 6 weeks. I overheard her 'explaining' to one sister that, "I grew up in some really bad Kingdom Halls. It was a terrible experience and that has me shy. I know that Jehovah's people are not perfect and I need to not focus on their imperfections . . . " So, she goes to a meeting, gets it out of her system . . . then goes out gambling, drinking, has very worldly friends . . . who are genuinely nice people to her.
4. If I or her worldly husband say anything against the cult, she goes into Battleship mode. We have learned to say NOTHING to her. Let her go to the Kingdom Hall. She'll come back, happy for one day. Then, get in a super, duper depressive fight-provoking mood a day later. It's her little cycle.
5. She can't see that the pressure to "be a JW" conflicts with something very deep inside her that is pushing her away from the religion. She attends the Kingdom Hall out of guilt. But, she must really hate the Kingdom Hall. It's a super restrictive, controlling environment. Everyone is watching everyone. There are rules, upon rules, upon rules, upon rules.
A sister walks in late with a 2 year old, and the other sisters say, "GEe, can't she make it here on time?" The 2 year old squirms and the other sisters tell the mother, "Take that kid to the bathroom, beat him until he learns to be quiet at our meetings. " The mother can't give the child gum or candy or any game at any of the meetings. They must sit still for several hours listening to boring bible discussion.
Men have to wear a certain suit, have their family presented nicely at the meetings, drive a modest vehicle, take modest jobs, attend every meeting, keep wife/kids in line, reach out to be elder, door-to-door service, etc.
Everyone walks on eggshells that they misstep and catch the ire of an elder. Some elders are nice, but it seems that every Kingdom Hall has its share of cocky, rooster-like elders who want to push the flock down into submission. The Kingdom Hall life is a pressure cooker. You see, that's how cults are and why they cause mental illnesses to flourish.
5.5. Every JW who has been in the religion long enough KNOWS that there are changes in doctrine. The totally brainwashed ones accept it as New Light, and not that the Watchtower screwed up. Becuase the rank-and-file Jehovah's Witnesses can not question the elders or the Watchtower Society, they are super dependant on what the Watchtower prints to become their thinking. The Watchtower repeatedly sneaks into its articles, near the end of the article, to "avoid independent thinking." I think MOST human beings HATE this. For your husband who has been out, this could be what is unconsciously making him the most miserable. It's that once he becomes a Jehovah's Witness (out of guilt or fear), he will be esentially giving up his free will.
6. I bet your husband has had a pretty nice life outside the Kingdom Hall. But, becuase he's holding onto the core beliefs and his mother is likely guilting him, he feels a 'duty' to get back to the meetings. But, something inside him is holding him back from the meetings. So, he's super miserable. And, you'd never understand.....as you were never a JW.... or so he thinks.
Skeeter
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NY23brown
I received a very long letter from my MIL last year (after a falling out) and she indicated why she will NOT celebrate our children's birthdays, etc., followed by a bunch of JW jargon. I really don't want a terrible relationship with my in-laws, but I am finding myself in that very place after standing up to them for hitting our oldest (then just 3). They caused marital problems for us again last year when I refused to stay in their home on vacation (staying in a hotel wasn't good enough, so I wouldn't go). My husband just can't stand up to either of his parents. They used to live in the same state as us, were lucky if we saw them twice a year, and then they moved south (their choice). MY FIL has come to our home a few times since and either doesn't speak to me or causes a problem while he's here, which leads to more marital fights. He has openly argued with me in front of my husband and husband says nothing to his father. Before our falling out, they never made special trips to see our kids, nor do they ever call to talk to them. I also get accused of being "violent" to FIL in front of the kids. This, coming from someone who hit a 3 year old who wasn't even misbehaving.
I'm not one to lay low and be walked all over, I suppose that is why they have such a problem with me as well.
Our girls are going to have an excellent Christmas, with or without him participating. It just scares me to think how family members are willing to try to destroy our family just to please themselves.
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skeeter1
Your mother in law has the right to not celebrate her grandchildren's birthdays. You and your children have the right to celebrate birthdays. But, JWs don't see it like that. They MUST project their viewpoint on everyone else. They are totally not tolerant of your religious views or customs. These are super judgemental people.
These articles reminds me of this
http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/celebrations.php
But, there are so many more on these items. I remember one about birthdays that shows that the birthday party, itself, didn't cause either Biblical man to be killed. You have to find that article. When I reread the Bible verses, I was astounded to read these verses in a different way then how I was taught.
If your FIL hit your 3 year old, did he also hit your husband as a child? I am betting yes. Many JW children are abused. Your husband sounds like he has some issues with his upbringing, and this is why he cowars to his parents. Perhaps he wants to avoid conflict with them? I'd gently discuss this with him. Perhaps he needs a counselor?
By the way, you will make a terrible JW wife. "I'm not one to lay low and be walked all over." Yep, you ain't a submissive wifey. :-)
Make your husband get out with the family for the purpose to ENJOY the family and himself. Can you go out to a park, and indoor child's park, movie, goonie golf, fishing? Get his mind off of all these dreary cultish ideas. THe happier he is, the easier it is to not be guilted into going to the Kingdom Hall. Christmas and birthdays are important, but in the grand scheme of things . . . . it's just this year's battle. Don't win the battle, but lose the war.
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NY23brown
He has told many a story about his dad being mean during his childhood...but always has an excuse for his behavior.
I have suggested marriage counseling but he refuses. I believe he is afraid a counselor would side with me, even though you and I both know a counselor is supposed to just listen and not take anyone's side. I also wonder if his family isnt' telling him to steer clear of counseling at my request...
I've spent many a sleepless night lately trying to figure out how to fix things just to make him happy. Unfortunately, I don't think he even knows what it will take to make him happy. I just think he is being guilt tripped and it is making him miserable. What bothers me is that I'm being made out to be some kind of monster and those who know me know I am nothing like that.
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skeeter1
JWs are GREAT at twisting to put the blame on the worldly person.
I think your husband is an onion with many layers. And, he's not tellng you about his father and his relationship. There are many books written by ex-JWs who underwent brutal childhoods. "The Truth Book" comes to mind.
Sometimes, the abused child dismisses the abusive parent or internalizes the blame. Could this be what is going on? Sometimes, the abused child doesn't remember - repressed memories.
JWs are sometimes afraid of counselors. A while back, it was absolutely forbidden for a JW to go to a shrink. Now, they can, but are many times told tol keep silent on their JWism.
Perhaps you could tell him that YOU are having a problem and that YOU go. In truth, you are having a problem dealing with HIM. The psycholgist can help you learn to deal with him.
We can also try to help. I'm hoping more ex-JWs are on board tonight. They are probably drinking egg-nog . . .
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exwhyzee
If he spent his childhood as a Witness it wouldn't take much to bring back a lot of the haunting guilt he was raised with especially if he hasn't resolved it all completley.
Sometimes it's best to let people feel what they feel. The more you try to fix them the more they dig their heels in or find justification for the mood they are in. It can be irritating to have someone try to talk you out of what you are feeling rather than let you work through it. It might be best to carry on as best you can and try not to take it personally....work around him as best you can for now. It's easier for him to blame you for his bad mood than to own up to it himself especially if he feels you are making him face or think about whatever it is that's bothering him.
Just my two cents?