Night all
Evil Spirits
by LizLA 294 Replies latest jw experiences
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ziddina
"Funny, I got a pm from the OP of this topic recommending the meditation cd she mentioned in one of her posts. ..." Josie
I didn't get any spam....
Damn! I feel SO left out!!
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cofty
Qcmbr - Thank you for your incisive comments long after my patience expired.
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tec
Night all
Probably a good idea, as Shelby stated above as well. I don't really see this thread as going anywhere now but downhill from here (at least in regard to the respect that might or might not be shown)
Peace all,
Tammy
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AGuest
AG - so when beaten by logic and scientific statements you back up to - 'you don't speak my language' - so therefore you are wrong. That just makes you really poor at explaining especially as it takes pages for you to make a point.
You confuse "You don't speak my language - so therefore you are wrong" with "You don't speak my language; therefore, you don't UNDERSTAND," dear Q (again, peace to you!). I think that's also what some of you are saying about "us". Well, at least early on... you know, before you started taking personal offense (and Lord knows why)...
Part of the scientific method is to look for tests that disprove your hypothesis. What tests have you done to disprove your hypothesis?
Okay, I am going to say this, but I don't think you're gonna "get" it: I attended university and took certain classes (forbidden by the WTBTS) because I wanted to see what the "proof" was TO disprove my belief. Didn't find it, dear one. And I looked. I look here... reading all manner of posts and links and such. Still haven't found anything to DISPROVE was has occurred and is occurring with me. Have found all manner of... wait for it... theories and hypotheses... though.
I suspect you don't have any hypothesis you just have faith.
And that's a problem because? I mean, faith IS what we've been advocating all along. It's what God and Christ "require." So... not sure where you're going with that...
To respect that which is without merit would be to concede it had intrinsic value.
That it is "without merit" is your personal opinion, dear one. Many would disagree with you. Not that that matters; I don't ascribe to the "majority rules" rule. Which is why it doesn't matter to ME how many of "you" contend on these matters... and call "us" stupid, etc., because we don't agree with "you".
You both preach ( and not particularly well ) about your personal god view
Well, c'mon... who's view SHOULD we share? Someone else's, whose view we have absolutely no idea is true or false? Well, true; one can usually tell the false ones. But whose, other than our own? Russell's? Knorr's? Yours?????
but then tell us there isn't a language with which we can understand it.
Uh-uh, nope. Never said that. NEVER said there isn't a language with which you can understand it. To the contrary, actually. That you don't want to HEAR it... let alone learn it... is on you.
You both then claim to be scientific
Wait... what??? Oh, stop it, Q - this "twisting" is SO beneath you. Wait... maybe not. I may recall saying something similar to you once before. Dang. And I thought you were really on the up-and-up. What was I THINKING???
and mix your very limited understanding of current science in as a second hand proof of your god
You MUST show me where either of us have done that. True, we both mention energy... but light is energy, is it not? And our Lord is the Light, so...
But that "mixing" has nothing to do with our [very limited] understanding of science. It's a very basic truth... that doesn't REQUIRE more than a limited understanding. Let's start with what you DO know (in simple terms, of course, 'cause not everyone here has a degree in [quantum] physics, like you do):
Energy = mass times 'constant' ("constant" being the speed of light in a vacuum that is, according to theory, a constant 299,792,458 m/s) squared. (Although this theory is apparently under attack, right now... we'll still go with it, for your sake. Anyway...
Mass = a measure of the amount of matter contained in or constituting a physical body (again, according to the "simple" explanation; I won't go into the whole weight, inertia, gravitational force, and relevant equations - you, at least, should get my drift by this definition).
But... voila!:
Christ = Light = Energy = Mass*c = Physical bod(ies) = the Physical universe... and all that is a part of it. (Although, I feel pretty certain that they're gonna have to revise "c" (both as to the speed of light, as well as as to whether the speed of light is the proper "constant", but going into that would be WAY beyond the scope of this thread, as well as out of MY league of understanding)... as well as their dogmatic position (and yours, apparently) that all energy is measured by mc 2 (i.e., what of energy that has no mass - I know, I know... "we" haven't gotten there, yet. We will, though... one way... or another [Way])
Even so, the thing is... there is more than just the physical universe. Indeed, the physical universe actually exists "inside" a non-phyiscal universe. You know... the one it is "expanding" INTO. And "energy" that originates in THAT "universe" (realm)... is not subject to the "laws" OF the phyiscal universe that define...and control... energy in this one. It's really simple stuff, dear Q. Really, it is...
But, okay, moving on...
the very scientific theories you deride when they crush your god.
You mean, like above? No, dear one: some of them help EXPLAIN our God. As dear tec stated.
What scientific knowledge has your god provided to you and to the world?
See above. That the world has yet to link Him TO it is... well... on it/them. They don't want to SEE the origin. As YOU don't. So... they don't. Neither do you.
If we can agree that it's zilch then let's just agree that science - whether it is 1600 alchemical dead end aspirations or 2011 LHC elegant brilliance - has nothing to do with your subjective magic world.
But... we don't agree. And just because you can put human terms to what humans currently understand doesn't mean YOU fully understand it to that extent, either.
Its a bit insulting to try and pull your chair up to the scientific table bringing nothing more than dreams and whispers couched in a language you confess is unintelligible.
It's just as insulting to have one thinking that pulling up their chair to a scientific table is the limit, the furthest one can go... when there is... are... MUCH higher "tables"... while thinking that the scientific table will suffice. When it's not even in the... wait for it... same realm. It's a bit hilarious, actually, from a spiritual POV... when those sitting at the kiddie table THINK they are the adult table. They make this mistake, however, because they don't understand the TRUTH: that it is a reversible. In THIS realm, the "higher" table is where the "grown folks" (i.e., the learned, educated, informed, etc., as to things of THIS world) sit. In that one, however, the "higher" table... is where "the young children" sit.
Science is not faith based it is experiment based.
No one has disputed that. But in an effort to "beat" your opponent, you keep trying to bring a nuclear weapon to a game of checkers. Tell me, if you launch that sucker... do you TRULY "win"? Or do we ALL die... including yourself?
You would suffer a breakdown if you ever confronted the fact that you are wrong because like all true believers you've wired your very existence to your central delusion.
You mean like I did when I left the WTBTS? Ummmmm... I don't think so, dear one. I admit, I might be a little sad, as many are when they suffer a loss of any kind. But don't fool yourself: I'm more of a phoenix than you know.
Again, peace to you, truly... meaning, don't let this all "get" to you, so much, dear one. Seriously... it's just an Internet discussion board, after all. Not like we're gonna come knockin' on your door or sumthin'. If we do, feel totally free to tell us to get the hell off your porch.
YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,
SA
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AGuest
I got a pm from the OP of this topic recommending the meditation cd she mentioned in one of her posts
Interesting, dear Miz Josie (peace to you, girl!): I actually exchanged several PMs with the OP (she contacted me for clarification and to explain her position as to one of my comments). Several went back and forth and yet, not once did she mention a book/CD or anything other than what we were discussing. I don't doubt that perhaps she may have done so to some of you... and I wish she would have been more forthcoming with that... but if so, it was probably due to the comments expressing disbelief.
Dear ones, we cannot assume that all who visit here are savvy enough at the outset to have reviewed the rules or be able to discern what's rude and/or in poor taste/offensive. Given how "we" often communicate with one another, some folks probably think, "Well, I guess ANYTHING goes here!"
Not making excuses; I truly don't know what her true motive was. But, again, she never offered me a thing... and given that I do believe in spirits (and hear/see them)... can't say why she didn't. I get the impression that she's quite young, though... and that might explain some things.
Again, peace to you!
A slave of Christ,
SA
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InterestedOne
AGuest wrote:
"You don't speak my language; therefore, you don't UNDERSTAND,"
Are you willing to offer an introductory lesson on the language you speak?
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mrsjones5
I don't know Shelby. I saw no point in her providing me a link to something she says brought into her life evil spirits that follows her around (not that I believe it actually happened) and then at the last telling me to have fun.
Some folks are screwy like I suppose.
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GromitSK
Hang on - missed that. Which views have been supported by which mental health professionals?
Hi Qcmbr
I meant the idea that influence by (let's say) 'discarnate entities' is possible.
Now I am not saying this is an authority, but you may find it food-for-thought (or not, depending on how open to the idea you are): This book was written by a guy called Carl Wickland http://new-birth.net/booklet/30_years_among_the_dead.PDF (cheerful title I know) - he was a psychiatrist (some background from wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Wickland). I am not saying this is fact but I found his research interesting. I don't quite know what to make of it myself.
There are other examples of psychiatric and psychotherapists recommending using exorcism (for example) as a therapeutic method although by no means all the references I checked indicated that they viewed this as anything more than a method to assist someone they felt was suffering from a delusion.
Even the catholic church recommends a sufferer seeing a psychiatrist before exorcism may be considered.
As to what Shelby and Tec are saying, I think what they are describing is a subjective experience basically. There seems to be no way to validate it unless it conveys veridical information that they could not have received by any normal method. That doesn't mean it isn't 'real' necessarily, just that there is no way to be sure (for anyone other than the receiver). It can only be ruled out if it can be proved to be impossible, which of course it cannot. That isn't the same as saying it is 'real' in a sense that would be meaningful to anyone else of course.
(sorry - botched the hyperlink for those interested)
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EntirelyPossible
Wow. Christ = Light = the Universe.
Weird stuff.
I am done here. Science wins. As usual.