by AGuest 30 Replies latest jw friends
I think the question, Botr, had to do with those who recieved revelation (such as John in the book of revelations). What scripture did he consult to prove that his revelation was accurate? Did he look to scripture to prove such, or did he rely on the Holy Spirit alone?
Peace,
tammy
Wow.
This thread reminds me of that Monty Python Skit " The Argument Shop "
of course it is only my observation and no, im not here for a free argument!
Az
Monty Python Skit????
Dear Shelby, May you have peace ! The peace meant by the word Shalom !
I find the question posed in your O.P most strange ? Do you test and question what your Lord says to you ? Surely there is no need, and John receiving the Revelation would not think to question it surely ?
Also I see no record of questioning or testing even mentioned (The Beroeans were simply verifying that the prophecies were there in scripture) until the John who wrote the letters, after the John who received the Revelation had written down his vision, says to test inspired expressions that were being delivered as he wrote, not already established ones, surely ? Surely the John of the Epistles was warning against the ideas of Gnosticism etc which were developing by then ?
I may well be absolutely wrong with this, if so please correct me. Your O.P made me think though that someone who really follows the leadings of Christ would not need to be constantly checking a manual.
Those of us who have known the sacred writings from birth do not need to keep referring to them, they are written on our heart.
One can "consult the Scripures" that are written on the heart. A book is not needed but it helps to confirm one's own doubt. When I have heard something that does not ring true, I know it's wrong, but I don't trust myself so I go to my trusty friend Biblos and take a close look at the words and their meaning, and my viewpoint is usually made firm.
Always is a dangerous word. It's even worse than "never". Christianity is a great chance to study a cult in formation. They invented it as they went along. Added stuff. Threw out stuff. Collated stuff. Indexed stuffed. Translated and retranslated stuff. Stole stuff. Absorbed stuff. The only thing that is consitently clear is that it is the work of humans.
Hi scotoma! God is a spirit. What you describe in your post sounds like the WTBTS (Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society). God is Love. Always and forever God is love!
Alas, John on Patmos, very unlikely to be the apostle John, the beloved disciple, never explained. One would think if John the author felt it was important he would have spent the builk of Revelation discussing how to test revelation. He used a literary genre. If he used another one, his content would be viewed as different. Apocalytic literature is not much magic but a literary convention. There are hundreds of apocalypses from Christians and Jews. Read them as you might read novels and John is not so unique.
I suspect the important part was not John's opinion b/c he had no idea he was writing canonical scripture. The testing would come from the rounds of Christian congregations and the council that canonized the Bible at Constantine's request. His apocalypse became Biblical not in a split second but as usage emerged over time. Many thought it was a silly book and should not be canonized. Political process more than Holy Spirit.
Band says " Education saved me"
No it didn't, your still a damn fool
Dear Shelby, May you have peace ! The peace meant by the word Shalom !]
THANK you and shalom and peace to you, too, dear Wobble!
I find the question posed in your O.P most strange ? Do you test and question what your Lord says to you ?
I do not, dear one.
Surely there is no need, and John receiving the Revelation would not think to question it surely ?
I would agree. Indeed, that was the point; however, many are of the position that the Apostles and disciples (and "earthy church fathers", who some apparently can't decide if they agree with or not) "always" did... and that "we" MUST do so, as well.
Also I see no record of questioning or testing even mentioned (The Beroeans were simply verifying that the prophecies were there in scripture)
THANK you!! AND... the Boreans were only verifying as to the prophecies concerning CHRIST... that what they were being told had occurred/was occurring... is what was PROPHESIED to occur. Which it was!
until the John who wrote the letters, after the John who received the Revelation had written down his vision, says to test inspired expressions that were being delivered as he wrote, not already established ones, surely ?
Agreed. The point was, based on WHAT were "inspired expressions" tested... at ALL? When the Father spoke to John the Baptizer, did that one say, "Wait, LORD, lemme go check the scriptures to see if it's really YOU speaking!"? How about Saul of Tarsus? What of the First Council, where the issues of circumscion and blood eating were raised? Where did James say, "We... and the scriptures... add no further burden to you."? He said, "We... and the holy spirit...!" The SCRIPTURES said a man had to be circumcised, yes? Now, per James... the holy spirit was saying something different! How could he "test" THAT... "against the scriptures"???
Surely the John of the Epistles was warning against the ideas of Gnosticism etc which were developing by then ?
Honestly, dear one, I don't know "what" he was warning against the "ideas" of. I only know that he was warning against those trying to mislead the Body into listening to anything... and ANYONE... other than the anointing (by holy spirit FROM the Holy Spirit) they had received.
I may well be absolutely wrong with this, if so please correct me. Your O.P made me think though that someone who really follows the leadings of Christ would not need to be constantly checking a manual.
And a manual written on paper in ink... versus written on the heart... at that! That is exactly what was meant, dear one: some who REALLY follows Christ... would NOT need to check with anything... or anyone... other than HIM. You HEARD... and got the SENSE of it! Praise JAH!
Those of us who have known the sacred writings from birth do not need to keep referring to them, they are written on our heart.
I couldn't have said it better myself, dear Wobble. You speak "accurately." THANK you!
And, again, peace to you!
YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,
SA
