by trthskr 236 Replies latest jw friends
The OP hasn't made a single positive statement as yet. Just 'Ad Hominem' attacks and childish statements.
Until the OP actually anwers Cedars excellent questions and comes back not simply insulting those that have had the decency to reply I'm off this thread.
It stinks of trolling.
As for the OP PMing the posters here......*SIGH*
Awww I feel left out AGAIN. I don't even get PM's from trolls.
Greetings, dear trthskr, and peace to you!
I personally do not have any great animosity toward the WTBTS (I didn't lose family, etc.)... except for, say, at least 10 reasons in which they do what they do. Which is:
1. Shun/DF which, although was something Paul initially taught (but later had to change because he almost single-handedly destroyed the Corinthian congregation as a result as well as ruined his relationship with the Apostles, et al.).. was something Christ NEVER taught (to the contrary, he actually sought out one man who was expelled for saying something the scribes, Pharisee, and priests didn't agree with (because, of course, THEY knew better than the man did! -John 9:34, 35)... as well as openly and publicly forgave a woman literally CAUGHT in the act of adultery... rather than accuse, judge, or condemn her - John 8:1-11); and
2. They teach what they do... which is 99% false... on the basis of "holy spirit"... which spirit they do NOT posses; in truth, they don't even possess a single "anointed" among them (they possess people who may have heard the CALL... but have not be CHOSEN... because they are still "touching the unclean thing", cessation of which touching must cease BEFORE ones are taken in as sons and daughters - 2 Corinthians 6:14-18, which has absolutely nothing to do with physical marriage between a man and woman, but SPIRTUAL marriage, between a man/woman... and Christ... and adoption as sons by God!); and
3. They hypocritically condemn others religions when, as YOU state, they really aren't any different (one example is their proclamation in an early tract, as set forth on pp. 69-70 of the Proclaimer's book that, the clergy of christendom are "a bigoted group of men who systematically endeavor to throttle all Bible teaching unless it comes through them!"... while they do exactly the same thing); and
4. While their reverence for "Jehovah" (who does not exist - the name of the Most Holy One of Israel is NOT "Jehovah", but JAH... of Armies - Psalm 68:4, so, okay, their reverence for "God") is commendable... they do so to the UTTER disregard OF holy spirit... and the One who dispenses, Christ. While they "smooch" the "air" all AROUND Christ... they utterly fail to KISS THE SON. Indeed, they would much rather have you kissing THEM... and, if you look closely at your words here... the "evidence" is that you DO kiss them!... than that Son. Indeed, they don't even tell you he's ALIVE (which is what 'resurrection' IS) and SPEAKS (which he does, by means of... wait for it... holy spirit - 1 John 2:26, 27)... because he doesn't speak to THEM. Yet, how can that BE, if they indeed HAVE holy spirit?? To the contrary;
5. They literally DENY that Christ... who is the Holy Spirit (2 Corinthians 3:17, but be sure to check the footnote and Appendix 1D)... speaks... while having NO problem claiming that DEMONS talk! Even live in inanimate objects like books and toys! Yet, how can that BE... if ALL authority... in heaven AND on earth... was given to CHRIST? Demons can do what even he CAN'T?? Is that not... wait for it... blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, dear one? It IS! Indeed, they...
6. Call themselves... the "Truth"! So that when one is asked "How long have you been 'in the Truth'?" the expectation is an answer with regard to how long one has been associated with the WTBTS. Yet... CHRIST... and ONLY Christ... is the Truth (John 14:6). So that the question REALLY asks, "How long... have you been IN UNION... with CHRIST?" But JWs can't, for the most part, answer this question. Why? Because the majority ARE NOT IN UNION WITH CHRIST. How do I know? Because...
7. The organization not only utterly ignores the COMMAND by Christ, regarding that union, but literally teaches AGAINST it. They teach that one can (1) be resurrected and (2) live forever without (3) eating the flesh and drinking the blood of Christ, because (4) they "have life within themselves", when Christ said the EXACT opposite:
“I am the bread of life. Y OUR forefathers ate the manna in the wilderness and yet died. This is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that anyone may eat of it and not die. I am the living bread that came down from heaven; if anyone eats of this bread he will live forever; and, for a fact, the bread that I shall give is my flesh in behalf of the life of the world.” (NOT just in behalf of Jehovah's Witnesses!)
" Therefore the Jews began contending with one another, saying: “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” Accordingly [Jesus] said to them: “Most truly I say to YOU , Unless YOU eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, YOU have no life in yourselves. He that feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has everlasting life, and I shall resurrect him at the last day; for my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. 56 He that feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood remains in union with me, and I in union with him. Just as the living Father sent me forth and I live because of the Father, he also that feeds on me, even that one will live because of me. This is the bread that came down from heaven. It is not as when YOUR forefathers ate and yet died. He that feeds on this bread will liveforever.” John 6:48-58
Yet, the WTBTS not only does not TEACH this truth... they teach AGAINST it, saying that only a FEW [among them] should do so. How, I must ask... are those who they tell will be resurrected and live forever... going to DO so... without having eaten the flesh and drank the blood of Christ? I will tell you: they CANNOT. Thus, ALL who left Egypt... Israel AND VAST MIXED CROWD... AT THE MANNA (Numbers 11:4; 1 Corinthians 10:1-4). By TEACHING this, however, they...
8. "Shut UP the kingdom of the heavens before men"... because THEY are not going in, neither do they permit those on their way in to go in - Matthew 23:13). They DO this by usurping the authority given to only ONE beside Christ. That one was Moses, in whose "seat" they have sat themselves... so as to "mediate" between God and man. (Matthew 23:2, 3) However, there is NO other leader, teacher, or MEDIATOR... between God... and ANY man... whether "anointed", "great crowd" what have you... BUT Christ. ALL others... are thieves and plunderers (John 10:1-15). The WTBTS particularly so; and
9. They teach a two-part "hope" (one earthly, one "heavenly") that was NEVER taught or believed by ANY who belonged to God and Christ; indeed, as Paul wrote, there is ONE hope, ONE baptism, ONE Lord, ONE faith (John 10:16; Ephesians 4:4; 2:19-21). There is no heavenly vs. earthly hope. There is an earthly hope for ALL... some as kings and priests in the temple of God, the city of "New Jerusalem"... which such ones must go the spirit realm (heaven) briefly in order have rulership bestowed UPON them... by means of marriage to the Lamb... but then New Jerusalem "comes down OUT of heaven," does she not? And some are subjects of that kingdom; however, that City AND its rulership... is UPON the earth (which is how Gog/Magog can even ENCIRCLE its "camp" so as to try and come against it). The very word that they translate to mean "over"... is correctly translated "UPON", even by their own publications (see inside cover of the WTBTS Greek Interlinear). That is why the "great crowd" are ALSO "standing BEFORE the throne" - because they are in the SAME place... as the 144,000 "from among the sons of Israel." Because they, TOO, are kings and priests, those of that great crowd. They are just not from ISRAEL, but from among the nations. They are the ones that replace unfaithful Israel... as part of the "holy nation." (Revelation 7:14; 5:9, 10)
10. They call the Bible the "Word of God"... and the "Truth that Sets Man Free"... when THE BIBLE says that that Word... and Truth... are Christ. (John 8:32, 36; 14:6; 17:17; Hebrews 13:12; Revelation 19:13)
And I could go on... and on... and on... and on.
Like the rest of us here, dear one... you have been misled. Or are being misled. And some here are very angry about that, given the many years they dedicated to a LIE... on the basis of those perpetuating that lie... claim to do so by means of holy spirit and an "anointing." Which are also lies. Many have lost loved ones... and the lives of loved ones. There is some "righteousness" in the bitterness that accompanies that when you realize that the loss is due to lies. Some of us, however, have either moved on... or were never angry at the PEOPLE... but at the false prophet and GOLDEN CALF that the WTBTS is: something to SEE so as to worship God. However, those who TRULY worship God do so in SPIRIT, by means of Truth. They walk... by FAITH... not by SIGHT... and so don't NEED some self-serving religious institution to guide or lead them. They HAVE a guide... holy spirit... and a leader: Christ, the Holy Spirit. I am such one.
It is entirely upon you, of course, to continue walking after them... following them and their ways. OR... like some others... you could choose to TURN AROUND... and follow the LAMB... wherever HE goes. Your choice. Always.
Again, peace to you... and may you be given ears (Psalm 40:6) to hear, if you truly wish them, when the Spirit and the Bride say to YOU:
"Come! Take 'life's water'... the holy spirit of God, the MOST Holy One of Israel and the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, whose name is JAH... of Armies (JaHVeH)... which water is poured out from the innermost parts of His Son and Christ (John 7:37, 38; Revelation 22:1)... the HOLY One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah)... FREE!"
YOUR servant, as I am servant to ALL those of the Household of God, Israel, and those who go with... by means of a TRUE anointing with holy spirit... and a slave of Christ, who bestowed upon his servant girl such anointing,
SA
Maybe a troll, maybe not. And I like making fun of someone as much as anyone.
But if anyone here has any interest in actually helping someone to see the real truth about the WTBTS organization, you'd have an easier time reaching them without the bullshit attacks and arrogant comments about shooting fish in barrels. Just sayin...
I'll add my voice to those who would like to see the OP answer Cedars's questions.
1975 Denial
1975 was the pet project of Fred W. Franz.
I personally had a conversation with Karl Klein (GB) and he lamented all the consequences of the 1975 fiasco.
In fact he said they (big shots & writers) were razzing Freddy right into the summer of 1975 asking him if he still thought something was going to happen.
How did Freddy the Prophet answer them?
"It's not October yet. Just wait. You'll see in October."
No one has to believe this. But I swear to whatever higher power that might exist that I heard this from Karl Kleins own mouth.
Anyone who knows how the Watchtower controls information would have to believe that any so called "rumors" had the backing of the society. They control everything - even the rumors. What's more. I never heard a talk during any assembly local or international where the society tried to squelch the rumors about 1975.
To end the rumors they only had to say something like this: "You know dear brother & sisters it has come to our attention that some of you are saying that 1975 is a marked year - that at the very least it will be the start of the Great Tribulation. Well, we on the Governing Body have never said that. And we want all such talk to stop immediately. After all the Bible never gave us a year or date when the Tribulation would begin. Be careful lest you give us the image of being false prophets. We have heard that some have even sold their houses anticipating that they could live off of that money and pioneer right up to the end. Others are delaying important surgery. Remember we don't serve with a date in view."
There were never any anit-rumor talks
I have never seen poster poopsicakes to be insulting, she should not be insulted. That's my opinion, for what it's worth.
Thank you sweetie :)
I didn't bother responding. I'm sure that under that hairy beast exterior there lives a real person with some issues and I'm not qualified to truly help. I think it's sad that someone who claims to love truth is so aggressively hateful but whatever - people need to find their own path and make their own choices. Once they realize that it's a choice to be unpleasant and that the choice to be pleasant and respectful is just as easy, they'll find themselves in a much happier state.
I get the feeling, from what has been posted here and in the pm's to me, that the OP is fairly young, naive and a bit arrogant. It's slams are just as laughable as it's apparent faith in the religion of it's grandmother. None of what it says should be taken seriously.
P.S. Both of my grandmothers (may they rest in peace) were jws and yeah their religion is laughable.
You're probably right about that, Mrs. J - particularly about the not taking it seriously bit.
Oh well, everyone makes mistakes like I said.
When a religion forbids a medical treatment, claiming that the alleged prohibition comes not just from man, but from God himself and on that basis, punishes those who disagree, the luxury of being mistaken evaporates into thin air.
Do you realize that this religion has a long and colorful history of forbidding medical treatments and then changing their mind after people have died?
They forbade both vaccinations and immunizations. They forbade gamma globulin. They forbade albumin. They forbade clotting factors. They forbade organ and tissue transplantation. They forbade hemoglobin based blood substitutes. They forbade platelet gels. The list is as long as your arm.
Every single one of these prohibitions has been reversed.
A religion cannot demand to be treated as infallible and then claim human fallibililty as an excuse once people have died. There is no excuse for that.
I'm still waiting for someone to show me where in the Bible it says people are perfect and don't make mistakes. You people are focusing on the wrong things- people erring which is only human. You do not want to focus on what the Bible teaches, just WTS, GB, individuals, etc. And I'm still waiting for someone to tell me which is the true religion I should join and why.
Just because you people couldn't live by Bible standards and do what is pleasing to God, doesn't give you a good reason to put down others who have found happiness and something that works in their lives. You are all waiting here like vultures, for someone to swarm on who just wants to chat with others in an intelligent and mature fashion. It's almost funny- all of the people on this forum, but it's just too pathetic and sad to be funny.
