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Who Did The Early Church Call Upon? Jesus or Jehovah?
by JCISGOD98 46 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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JCISGOD98
If the early church was calling upon Jesus as stated in Acts 9:14, then the church believed Jesus was God. They wouldn't be calling upon an a god or a created being if Jesus was not the Eternal God.
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designs
Go Catholics
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JCISGOD98
Who Said Jesus Was GOD?
JESUS SAID SO:
***“But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God” (Jn. 5:17-18).
*** “Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by” (Jn. 8:58-59)
*** “I and my Father are one. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him” (Jn.10:30-31).
ISAIAH SAID SO:
*** “Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel (God with us)” (Isa. 7:14).
*** “For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace” (Isa. 9:6).
THOMAS SAID SO:
*** “And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God” (Jn. 20:28).
PAUL SAID SO:
*** “Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ” (Titus 2:13).
*** “Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen” (Rom. 9:5).
THE WRITER OF HEBREWS SAID SO:
*** “But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom” (Heb. 1:8).
JOHN SAID SO:
*** “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God” (Jn. 1:1).
*** “And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life” (1 Jn. 5:20).
PETER SAID SO:
*** “Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ” (2 Pet. 1:1).Ignatius Said So "For our GOD Jesus Christ was conceived in the womb"
Polycarp Said So: "believe on our Lord and GOD Jesus Christ"
Justin Martyr Said So :
"For Christ is our King and Priest and GOD and Lord"
Melito Said So:
"(Jesus) rose from the dead as GOD"Irenaeus Said So: "So GOD became man and the Lord Himself saved us"
Tertullian Said So: "In His birth GOD AND MAN united"
The Little Labyrinth Said So: "sing of Christ as the word of God and address Him as GOD"
ANY QUESTIONS!
Bibliography: (Note: all emphases in quotations are added.)
American Heritage Dictionary. Boston: Houghton Mifflin Company, 1985.
Bush, L. Russ, ed. Classical Readings in Christian Apologetics. Grand Rapids: Academie Books, 1983.
Cetnar, William. Questions for Jehovah's Witnesses. Kunkleton, PA: by the author, 1987.
Dods, Marcus, transl. The First Apology of Justin Martyr. Tyler, TX: Scroll Publ., 1989.
Eusebius. The History of the Church. trans. G. A. Williamson. Middlesex, England: Penguin Books, 1965.
Fremantle, Anne, ed. A Treasury of Early Christianity. New York: Viking Press, 1953.
Goulder, Michael, ed. Incarnation and Myth. Grand Rapids: Wm. B. Eerdmans, 1979.
Lightfoot, J. B. and M. R. Harmer, eds. The Apostolic Fathers. Grand Rapids: Baker, 1988.
Mankind's Search for God. New York: Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, 1991.
Moyer, Elgin. rev. by Earle Cairns. The WycliffeBiographical Dictionary of the Church. Chicago: Moody Press, 1982.
Stevenson, J. rev. by W. H. C. Frend. A New Eusebius. London: SPCK, 1987.
Tucker, Ruth. Another Gospel. Grand Rapids: Academie Books, 1989.
Williams, J. L. Victor Paul Wierwille and The Way International. Chicago: Moody Press, 1979. -
Band on the Run
I believing you are reading Acts backwards from mainstream modern Christianity rather than questioning what those words meant to Jesus' generation and thereafter. Calling on Jesus' name may have meant a range of things. I don't know if you know about Christology, the nature of Christ. Christ's nature and if he is divine, divine in which aspects is hotly debated. Stephen's martyrdom shows it was a very hot issue then. The split between Judaism and Christianity is great. Somehow a Jewish religion evolved into a religion that taught that a man was God. I was not on the ground in those days. There are few writings from the period. We can't interview the dead to clarify what they meant. I notice the Bible does not contain any long refined creeds.
What seems so obvious a question now evidently was not much of an issue when scripture was written. The Bible is NOT clear. Before I learned a bit of what essentially was history, the Bible seemed clear to me. There are writings not in the Bible that show different types of gospels and pastoral letters. Christianity was diverse. It seems diverse now but apparently any thread could have become dominant.
I thought I knew it all from the Witnesses but I knew nothing. I don't know much now. No one knows that much. Also, we have so many modes of communication today - phone, webcams, emails, letters, tv, films, theatre and yet people misunderstand each other. It had to be much harder to impose uniformity when no one was monitoring thoughts.
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designs
Questions, not really, a few comments though. Isaiah has nothing to do with the Christian's Jesus or any who try to claim it for him, ask a Rabbi. All of the other quotes are from the notoriously fabricated conceit known as the New Testament. And geez William Cetnar, talk about leaping from one cult into another bigger Cult he's your man.
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JW GoneBad
I'm reading along with the rest of the JWs the publication "Bearing Thorough Witness" at the Book Study Congregation Bible Study. We covered Acts chapt 9 a while back. I went through and reviewed it again for purposes of this discussion. This week we start chapter 15. I must admit, when I ponder the question "Who Did The Early Church Call Upon?"; the answer I come up with so far is Jesus 100% of the time and Jehovah 0%.
So it sounds like this thread is right on!
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bioflex
@OP: Try searching the phrase "Jehovah's witnesses" in the entire bible and see how many instances you can find in it. The JW's practically forget that the Isrealites are not the only descendants of Abraham. And since it was Abraham that was given the promise its only logical that we can get to recieve it through him, that is why the bible says we(christians) are descendants of Abraham through Jesus Christ.
Acts 1: 8(KJV) - But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
These are the words of Christ himself, and yet the JW's go over it and claim witnesses of Jehovah.
Isaiah 43 : 10(KJV) - Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
This scripture in its entirety was meant for the Isrealites, and there is no justifiable way to conferr it on themeselves (JW's)
before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
This show clearly that the is one God, one Almighty to be precise , though there be other gods by their own power and authority they can only be one almighty.
Genesis 17: 1(KJV) - And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.
Here we see Jehovah being almighty
Revelation 1 : 8(KJV) - I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
again Christ is saying in revelation that he is Almighty so the question is can there be more than one almighty? certainly not. This is clear when we look at John 1
John 1: 1-5(KJV) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
Here we see that God is equal to His word, which means
God = WORD , but then Jesus christ is the word incarnate ( in flesh). What more can be said ?
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slimboyfat
It can't be proved as JWs would like, but I actually think there is a good chance that the original NT did contain the divine name and that early Christians did "call upon Jehovah" in some sense. This is particularly apparent in the book of Acts where there is a clear distinction between the Lord Jesus and the Lord God that seems strangely obscured by the use of the same Greek word for both in the book as it stand in the extant copies.
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slimboyfat
No self-respecting Jew would EVER pronounce the sacred name.
During which period and what is your evidence?