by Alfred 43 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
DesirousofChange, have you ever actually served as an elder?
You contradicted something I said on another post about judicial procedure, and when I showed the actual paragraph from the elders manual proving that what I said was true, there was no reply.
What gives?
Cedars
Knowsnothing.... no lack of elders that I am aware of... on fact, two laid-off bethelites just joined the congo and i believe they were both appointed as elders recently...
the possibility of an elder losing his privileges because his son no longer wishes to be a JW but still lives under the same roof..
It is a very real possibility. They use stuff like this to try to force these guys to drag their children to the Kingdom Hall. What would typically happen is that the body of elders would review the father's actions to keep his son in the cult. Body by body, they could decide different things. The biggest factor is typically that they don't want to lose an elder. Often, they will find a way to keep him, but if he didn't have a valid reason to kick his son out of the house as a young adult and couldn't enforce a rule that the son attend meetings in order to live at home, many bodies would remove the elder from his position.
Many elders cave in to the pressure from the body to do something, because they cannot imagine losing their stupid eldership.
To me, it seems like a good way to get rid of the responsibility. But many get rid of the child.
"An elder with teenagers (or older) at home who are not dunked is scrutinized severely."
Yep. Although it might happen somehow or somewhere, I haven't heard of an elder or MS that continues to serve with an unbaptized, dfd, or inactive 18 yo still at home. That's how many dudes get removed in the first place, and then never serve again afterward.
**Sigh**
I'll post the paragraph shall I?
Hang on...
Cedars
OTWO... yes... my BIL got rid of the problem by removing it from his home... couldn't the bastard simply step down and keep his son? No... he'd rather keep his status as a well-respected assemby speaker.
Billy... that's what I thought...
thx
So just to clarify folks...
Alfred's brother in law could only have his qualifications reviewed if his son commits WRONGDOING. Last time I checked, not going to the meetings anymore isn't in itself an act of wrongdoing.
Even if Alfred's nephew kicked up a stink and was disfellowshipped for apostasy, his Dad wouldn't necessarily lose his position. Why?
"If the brother has done all that can reasonably be expected and especially if he has had spiritual success with others in his household, rejection of his fine direction by one family member would not necessarily disqualify him if he continues to have the respect of the congregation."
Cedars
The problem is that is a "laundry list", there is pretty much no way an elder will be able to keep tabs on adult children who pretty much have their own life. Even the first question "Was he permissive?" That is so general, the rest of the body can hold him accountable even if the elder is hardcore and the kids just go behind his back.
Anyway, congrats on your nephew, always good to hear of another escapee
WT says:
*** w96 10/15 p. 21 Father and Elder—Fulfilling Both Roles ***
“Having Believing Children”
5 When instructing Titus to appoint overseers in the Cretan congregations, Paul stipulated: “If there is any man free from accusation, a husband of one wife, having believing children that were not under a charge of debauchery nor unruly. For an overseer must be free from accusation as God’s steward.” Just what is meant by the requirement “having believing children”?—Titus 1:6, 7.
6 The term “believing children” refers to youngsters who have already dedicated their lives to Jehovah and have been baptized or to young ones who are progressing toward dedication and baptism. The members of a congregation expect elders’ children to be generally well-behaved and obedient. It should be apparent that an elder is doing all that he can to build up faith in his children. King Solomon wrote: “Train up a boy according to the way for him; even when he grows old he will not turn aside from it.” (Proverbs 22:6) But what if a youth who has received such training refuses to serve Jehovah or even commits a gross wrong?
7 It is evident that the above-quoted proverb is not stating a hard-and-fast rule. It does not annul the principle of free will. (Deuteronomy 30:15, 16, 19) When a son or a daughter reaches the age of responsibility, he or she must make a personal decision with regard to dedication and baptism. If an elder has clearly given needed spiritual help, guidance, and discipline, yet the youth does not choose to serve Jehovah, the father is not automatically disqualified from serving as an overseer. On the other hand, if an elder has several minor children living at home who, one after the other, become spiritually sick and get into trouble, he might no longer be considered to be “a man presiding over his own household in a fine manner.” (1 Timothy 3:4) The point is, it should be manifest that an overseer is doing his best to have ‘believing children that are not under a charge of debauchery nor unruly.’
Although the wording and interpretation could be vague, the usual black-and-white interpretation I've encountered is that if his kids aren't dunked by 16, questions are raised. (Actually, that was the case with me.) The wording that kids can choose for themselves when they're of age, involves the kids that are already grown when the parents learn "the truth". The WT words it like the elder may have a dfd child at home and he still may serve, but I've never seen it happen. I'd love to hear some stories of how that's happened and been justified somehow. There are plenty of strange cases in Watchtowerland.
