Memorial 2012 Date

by Quendi 24 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Quendi

  The directions for celebrating the Lord's Supper are clearly given at 1 Corinthians 11:23-25, moshe. There is no need to have the bread blessed beforehand. I don't know Jewish custom with respect to celebrating Passover or eating a seder meal, but those customs would not be binding on Christians in any case. The entire "menu" is simply unleavened bread--something anybody can bake--and wine. Christ said a blessing over the bread and wine before passing them around. There is no indication that he had someone else bless them and Paul did not say that these items had to be blessed ahead of time either. Instead, he directs that any blessing said would be done at the time of the celebration and not before.

  As for the necessity to have Passover matzah, again this is a Jewish custom and understanding. That would certainly not be binding on Christians. Unleavened bread was commanded to be used at Passover celebrations. No sourdough or any other kind of leavened bread was to be eaten during the meal or the entire seven days of the Passover festival for that matter. It is important to remember that this is a Christian ritual, not a Jewish one. So there is no need to follow strict Jewish belief, practice or regulation in holding the ceremony. Simple unleavened bread along with wine is all that is necessary, not kosher matzah and kosher wine. And the celebrants can ask any blessing they see fit.

  Quendi
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  Sulla

  Well, the Orthodox viewpoint is that there is no particular reason to use leavened bread, anyhow. I think that is just another way of saying that they take the gospel of John to have priority over the synoptics when it comes to the timing of the Last Supper. John, of course, placing the entire event prior to Passover: Jesus is killed at the same time the Passover lambs were being slaughtered. If so, then the Last Supper was leavened bread.
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  moshe

  So there is no need to follow strict Jewish belief, practice or regulation in holding the ceremony.

  I wasn't implying it be done that way- but I was pointing out to legalistic detail-minded JWs just how far they would have to go to recreate an exact memorial. I do this in an effort to get JWs to think about their ritual and how there could be an mistake in the date, all in an effort to undermine the legalistic control the WT has over them.
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  Anony Mous

  We should all show up 20 minutes late to sit down and partake of the symbols. Then leave again. Any number of people counted helps!
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  designs

  I remember when my daughter was little and she and her friends would have a pretend Tea Party, its a little like that on Nissan 14th....when you want to be Yehudah.
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  Quendi

  I have to disagree with you, Sulla, on levened bread being used during that "Last Supper". Matthew, who was present at the occasion, states explicitly, "On the first day of the unfermented cakes the disciples came to Jesus, saying: 'Where do you want us to prepare for you to eat the passover?' " (Matthew 26:17) In John's account, he indicates that it is the Passover meal that was eaten because when Judas is dismissed, some of the disciples thought Jesus had ordered him to buy things needed for the festival. Remember, the Passover was not a single day's observance but a festival that covered seven days. And during that time no unleavened bread was to be eaten. Indeed, the Jews were forbidden to eat any leavened foods at all. --Leviticus 23:4-6

  Consequently, when Christ and his disciples gathered for that Passover observance, the bread eaten was unleavened. That is the testimony of the gospels. Both Mark and Luke corroborate what Matthew writes about the eating of unleavened bread. (Mark 14:12; Luke 22:7) Paul calls Christ "our Passover" and says that unleavened bread was used then. (1 Corinthians 5:6-8) Now I'm not insisting on this point because I don't celebrate the Memorial at all. And I'm aware that many churches see fit to use leavened bread in their communion ceremonies. I'm only saying that I think that on the night Christ instituted this celebration it was most likely, almost certain, that unleavened bread was used.

  Quendi
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  Quendi

  Moshe, thanks for the clarification of your point.

  Quendi
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  Sulla

  Sorry, Quendi, but John and the synoptics plainly disagree. The synoptics seem to incdicate it was Passover, while John clearly tells us (in more than one place) that Jesus died at the very time the lambs were being slaughtered. That would make his meal the night before prior to Passover. That Jesus is the Passover lamb writ universal is something of a theme in that gospel, you know. And John was there, too. So, whatcha gonna do, I guess?

  It's not the only difference of opinion between John and the synoptics. Most interestingly, John places the cleansing of the temple at the very start of Jesus activities, while the Synoptics place it in Holy Week. I don't think anybody takes the idea that this notorious event happened twice.

  Finally, St. Paul's reference in 1 Cor. does not say what you think it says. And by calling Christ "our Passover" it seems to me he is more likely to be making the point that the Lamb of God died on Passover, and not the day after.
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  Quarterback

  This really is great research, friends. I got a chance to research this subject this week, with a discussion with my good friend, Mosche.

  I learnt quite a bit about the Jewish calendar.

  If it exists, I would really like to see the article where Franz or Rutherford changed the date of observing the Memorial to Nisan 14.
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  shepherd

  Quendi you are right, certain writers in the Bible specifically say unleavened bread was used, but they also place the events during Nisan 15. The arguments over whether it was Nisan 14 or 15 when Jesus had the meal of his new covenant are complex. Nisan 14 was the day of preparation and the unleavened bread was baked during that day and in the afternoon about 4 hours before the beginning of Nisan 15 the lambs were slaughtered, yet John indicates this is the same time Jesus died, which would mean if the meal was at the beginning of Nisan 14 leavened bread was used. However, Matthew, Mark and Luke agree (since they share a common origin) that the Last Supper was held only after the Jewish holiday had begun, which would be the evening of the 15th Nisan, complete with unleavened bread.

  I am not sure why even something so simple as a date can end up a muddle in the Bible, but, true to form, it does. Sulla is right, John and the synoptics plainly disagree over the date. It's one reason for not thinking the Bible is inspired of God, it can be so contradictory over the simplest of things. One possible reason is the writers who documented events that supposedly happened almost a lifetime before - none of the 'gospels' were written close to the events they described - simply got confused. Or, for John, it just better suited this writer's deeper explanation of prophetic fullfillment and archetyping of sacrifice if he moved the events back a day.

  The JW way of course is to combine both accounts and somehow conclude they are both correct, if you jumble up the accounts in just the right way. According to them Jesus managed to eat the passover lamb on Nisan 14, right at the beginning of the day of Preparation, and therefore before the lambs had even been sacrificed in the late afternoon of what for modern man is now the next day.

  Interestingly, whether you follow Matthew Mark and Luke, or John's account does affect whether leavened bread or unleavened is used. Contrary to popular belief that it has always been that way, the Catholic custom of using unleavened wafers in the Mass is only medieval in origin. The Orthodox churches preserve the earlier custom of using leavened bread.