Memorial 2012 Date

by Quendi 24 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Sulla
    Sulla

    I am not sure why even something so simple as a date can end up a muddle in the Bible, but, true to form, it does. Sulla is right, John and the synoptics plainly disagree over the date. It's one reason for not thinking the Bible is inspired of God, it can be so contradictory over the simplest of things.

    Could be that the date wasn't as important as the JW make out. This meal was the definitial religious action of the Christians, that thing they did each week, and it is not obvious that it matters much whether is was instituted on Passover or on the day before. Sunday immediately became the "Lord's day," suggesting a focus on the Thursday, Friday, and Sunday events. That might go some way in explaining the lack of focus on the date.

    Or, for John, it just better suited this writer's deeper explanation of prophetic fullfillment and archetyping of sacrifice if he moved the events back a day.

    Or, John got it right. Could be the theme of his work is dependent on the timing of the events, not the other way around. In either case, the disagreements between the gospel accounts is hardly something that we have discovered in the 20th century. Everybody has always known about it. Yet the accounts are considered inspired. Obviously, this wasn't considered a central focus back in the day.

  • Quendi
    Quendi

    I have really enjoyed this discussion and want to thank everyone, particularly Sulla and shepherd, for their thoughts. Both of you have given me a lot to think about. I want to expand the discussion to include this question. Is it likely that first century Christians did not hold this ritual only once a year, but did so frequently? I ask this because at 1 Corinthians 11:26 Paul writes, "For as often as you eat this loaf and drink this cup, you keep proclaiming the death of the Lord, until he arrives."

    The WTS says that the 1,970+ times the Memorial has supposedly been celebrated qualifies as "often", but I don't think the context of Paul's discussion of the Lord's Supper supports that conclusion. I think it is far more likely that Christians held this ritual frequently throughout the year. Does anyone else have some thoughts on this? Comment is certainly invited.

    Quendi

  • wha happened?
    wha happened?

    One point I wanted to inquire on. Apparently the WT did point to Nisan 15 as the day of the memorial, then changed it to Nisan 14. Was there an article that addressed this change> I'd love to see it.

  • Sulla
    Sulla

    Is it likely that first century Christians did not hold this ritual only once a year, but did so frequently?

    It is certain that the Eucharist was the weekly activity of the early Christians. That is, their weekly sservices looked very much like Catholic, Orthodox, Anglican, or Methodist services and nothing whatever like the JW meeting. Consult St. Justin Martyr's First Apology, dating from around 135 AD, which attempts to explain the new Christian religion to the Romans, especially chapters 65-67. In 67, Justin offers an explanation of the weekly Christian service, which will be familiar to anyone from a liturgical tradition:

    And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succours the orphans and widows and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need. But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration.

    So, there you have it.

    There is some irony in the observation that the JWs have gone to substantial lengths lately to make it seem, by way of illustrations, that the early Christians did things like go door-to-door. They did not, of course, and neither did their worship services look remotely like the JW's song, sermon, and study meetings. The JW conceit that they are re-discovering the authentic practices of early Christianity is as false as their conceit that they are re-discovering the authentic doctrines of early Christianity.

  • Quarterback
    Quarterback

    That is great information, Sulla. I have learnd alot in this post. Great post.

    Thanks

    QB

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