Characteristics Associated with Cultic Groups - Janja Lalich, Madeline Tobias (page 2)

Heath N

The WTB&TS & JW's abhor being called a "cult".......even though they appear to have most all

of those charactistics.

BREAKFAST OF CHAMPIONS- I know how you feel. When I first exited in 2003 from the Witnesses I wouldn't have thought the WT society was a cult either back then- however from reading and educating myself on it- my mind certainly changed on that by 2007 when I informed myself about it. I think you'd like this book, yes indeed.

00DAD- For sure, a turd is still a turd whether it's polished or not. Shiny, dull , half eaten- whatever it still stinks ! Peace out, Mr. Flipper

flipper

00DAD- Exact point I made in my reply to On the Way Out, I agree with you about WT studies turning into " denunciation sessions " where they put down apostates and ex-JW's as " mentally diseased " and tell Witnesses to shun family members. It's definitely hate speech indoctrination .

HEATH N- WT society hates being called a cult. But if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck , and waddles like a duck- it's a duck. For sure

Pistoff

I am not sure I would call them a full blown cult, but they have many characteristics of a cult.

They are not as damaging as Scientologists, for example, or FLDS.

Those are grandaddy cults.

But the WT won't let you leave with any dignity; they control thoughts, they denounce at length, they allow no dissent, they think there is no life outside.

And they have deified the leaders, although they would deny it; they say that GOD, ooops sorry Jehovah is leading them, inspriring them, and if we don't listen even to the local elders we are not listening to Jehovah.

They are definitely further along the continuum toward a cult than a mainline religion.

OnTheWayOut

I am not sure I would call them a full blown cult, but they have many characteristics of a cult.

They are not as damaging as Scientologists, for example, or FLDS.

Those are grandaddy cults.

They are a full-blown cult when you compare them to things the cult experts call a cult. But yeah, I get what many say about them. I occasionally call them cult-light because members don't live at a commune/compound and aren't asked to sacrifice young women to the leader. They don't literally blackmail you with the stuff they took from your "audit." They don't recruit with attractive people misleading those of the opposite sex with some kind of gathering of college people at a party or at a retreat this weekend out in the woods.

I would say they are a third-string American cult, coming after Scientology and Mormonism. But I don't think that means they are less damaging. I am pretty sure they are less damaging than some of the really whacked out smaller cults like the LDS break-aways or David Koresh's group or the likes. Cult-light almost makes them an acceptable normal Christian religion. That is what many people think. But lose a loved one to the blood issue or be shunned for leaving, and it's just as damaging.

Phizzy

The level of damage is different for all people involved, but the damage comes from the cult methods they use in their operation. To say they are less of a cult than others is a bit of left over WT thinking, it is like me saying I don't punch my wife till she is unconscious like some guys do, I just slap her a little bit.

Same reasoning, but as OTWO rightly says , for some the damage is immense, if they were not a cult there would be no real damage to speak of, people would leave and move on with their lives and emotions and families in good order.

As it is, to leave means to be attacked by the cult in many ways, all you can do is damage limitation.

00DAD

Pistoff: They are not as damaging as Scientologists, for example, or FLDS.

Phizzy already made the point, but I think it's worth repeating. Just because there may be worse cults does not let JWs off the hook.

To put it another way, it's like saying a physically and emotionally abusive, controlling husband isn't as bad as a serial killer. That may be true, but the abusive husband is STILL an abusive husband. It is wrong, wrong, wrong!

And let's not forget in this case the "abusive husband" goes around telling everyone that HE Is God's Only Representative on Earth Today and that anyone that doesn't listen to him, in fact anyone that even questions him or says a bad thing about him and his abusive ways, will not only die at Armageddon but will be shunned by 7 million of his followers in the meantime!

And for those that continue to be abused by him, you must devote at least 10 hours, or hopefully more, each and every month telling total strangers what a great and loving guy he is and that they should join his wonderful family of followers all united by Love!

Also don't forget, he has a lot of rules: who you can and can't be friends with once you're part of the family, what kinds of clothes you can wear, how you should groom your hair, what movies you can watch, books you can read, music you can listen to, which holidays you can celebrate ... the list is long. But don't worry because you'll spend many hours each week studying the list, which is important because it changes from time to time.

And you MUST follow the list or you will displease Him. You wouldn't want to do that because then you will be kicked out of "the family" and shunned by your former "family" members unless you come groveling back on your hands and knees. And of course if you don't come back, then you'll be killed at Armageddon. There's always that.

Now doesn't this sound like a nice big happy family!

How happifying!

flipper

Been working a lot last couple days, will bump this up. Thanks for your replies !

PISTOFF- Have you by any chance read Steve Hassan's 2 books on mind control cults ? " Combatting Cult Mind Control " & " Releasing the Bonds- Empowering Others to Think for Themselves " ? If you read those books I would guess you'd come to a different conclusion about Jehovah's Witnesses being a dangerous cult. Especially the 2nd book as it mentions JW's several times. Your statement, " They ( Jehovah's Witnesses ) are not as damaging as Scientologists, for example, or FLDS . "

I beg to differ with you. The cutting off and shunning of family members and former friends for years and years on end is every bit as psychologically damaging as the heavy handed measures Scientology or Mormonism uses. I consider all 3 cults, JW's, Scientologists, and Mormons as just as dangerous as each other on the same level ! The WT society has just a more subtle way of manipulating and controlling it's members - not as blatantly out front like the Scientologists - however truth be told that very fact may make the WT society even MORE dangerous than the others for a person can waste their entire life and fortune on giving to the WT beastly organization - and have nothing to show for it in the end .

ON THE WAY OUT- I agree that the WT society and JW's are a cult. And they do use persuasiveness and black mail tactics to get their members to cooperate. DFing, you'll be destroyed at Armageddon if you leave the alleged " truth " - I mean how many other ways can you black mail a person by telling them they'll die if they leave your organization ? Or be destroyed ?

PHIZZY- Good point you make that the level of damage for those exiting the Witnesses has been more severe for some than others. Yet for many of us that have experienced the injustices and damaging effects of the WT society on ourselves and our families - it screams out cult, cult cult ! Good illustration you mentioned about the abuse of a husband towards his wife.

00DAD- I agree with you. The " abusive husband " - the WT society - like you say goes around claiming to be God's representative , or the " faithful & discreet slave class " so they have even MORE reprehensibility I believe in not living up to treating 7 million JW's with fairness. To kick out JW's from the organization and cut them off from family and threatening them with destruction at the alleged " Armageddon " - sounds like a Nazi organization more than anything resembling Christianity

Lady Lee

I did a whole series on this book a few years ago. With the permission of th epublisher and Lalich. There might be around 15 topics we discussed.

Captive Hearts, Captive Minds/Take Back Your Life

The book was originally published as Captive Hearts, Captive Minds. Then it was updated and republished as Take Back Your Life.

excellent excellent book to read

flipper

LADY LEE- Hey , thanks for the link to your thread about this book and the many subjects it covers . I appreciate it. The book is a great read and I too highly recommend it for anyone leaving mind control cults or abusive relationships

Characteristics Associated with Cultic Groups - Janja Lalich, Madeline Tobias

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