Subjugation of Women (page 2)

NewChapter

I know my experience as a JW stands in sharp contrast to many here. I don't know why---it wasn't my treatment in the org that sent me packing---it was an awakening to the facts. However, once out, I could look back and see the things that SHOULD have bothered me and would bother me today. But....here is how it went for me.

I ignored all that subjugation crap. I would get really, really irritated with any sister that was always asking permission, and she just couldn't hang with me much. I wasn't the type to support her in being the childwife. I was the earner in my marriage. The hubby worked, but I brought in the money and the insurance---and I worked in a situation where I couldn't act all meek and humble, because I demanded respect from the men and the women.

There was a point when my husband did some things to totally destroy my trust in him, and I absolutely refused to let him handle the finances. I never had a joint checking account with him, or credit cards with him, loans--whatever. I kept my finances separate from him, and I stayed in control of them. I was divorced once, and saw how an out-of-control husband could destroy MY freaking credit, and it wasn't happening again.

Anyway, I guess he thought he would just "tell on me" to the elders and he had them to our house. He told them how he should be the one responsible for the bills but I would not let him. He felt this was an assault to his headship. Wellllllllllllllllllllll they pretty much put him in his place. Un freaking believable cuz I thought they were going to pile the pressure on. Instead they told him that Head of House meant spiritual and not physical, and that this should be his concern if he wanted me to trust him. They told him I was the one using wisdom, and he NEEDED TO FOLLOW MY LEAD! I know. Crazy.

Then things got uglier. Okay, so like, a hole got punched into a wall. I'm not pointing fingers, but it wasn't me. He tried to physically pry a phone out of my hand, I was tired of being manhandled, so I clomped him with it. I know violence is not the answer, I'm not proud, but it happened. He didn't hit me, but he could physically overwhelm me and force me to leave rooms, hang up phones, or whatever and I'd had enough. So his response was to attack the freaking innocent wall. Anyway a brother who lived a few doors down stopped in right after it happened. This was the most indoctrinated person ever---practically Amish. He walked in with his usual smile---always always friendly. He saw the hole, and his face flushed red and the smile, always present, just disappeared. He looked my husband square in the eye, but asked ME, did he hit you? there was a threat in his voice. I said "no, I hit him." He did a triple take.

And when I called our po and said I was leaving him, he simply said, "I have no objections to that." So my experience was very different. But I saw it wasn't that way for all the sisters, and it used to turn my stomach.

Please don't judge me as a violent person. I have come to understand that physical abuse is more than hitting, and manhandling me everyday qualified. I was defending myself, but don't condone such actions. I had been putting up with it for a long time.

NC

Band on the Run

It is very true that JW men tend to be emasculated more than the average male. When I rode the NYC subways, the Bethelites could be spotted by different body language. I believe indiviiduals make up the whole yet it is express JW theology that subjects women to an inferior position. Some mentioned how nice it would be if sisters could do JW chores. The WTBTS allows a potent force for JWs to be ignored. So does the Roman Catholic Church. I grew up in the 1950s and 1960s, I heard vile things at KH. Women deserved to be rape b/c of provocative clothing, such as a V-neck blouse and coiffed hair or makeup. My entire world was colored by being deigned a too sensual, ditzy female.

The OT is very sexist. You don't need to extrapolite any scripture. The scriptures are miscogynistic on their face. Jesus is radically different in his treatment of women. Yet I don't believe that half of human resources had nothing to do besides keep house and provide sex. We are told a male point of view. Imagine if women could write. I'd love to read a canonical Gospel of Mary Magdalene. Mutuality between the sexes would make for the best life.

Society has evolved greatly. The Witnesses have not. Well, they have female lawyers which blew my mind.

What factors do you think emasculate men? Perhaps it is just being too controlled in every way. The Society creates tension between man and women. Maybe I am a freak b/c the Witnesses are chock full of women wanting such treatment. It is odd that men feel there were not available women. Every woman I've known on a more than casual basis is brother obsessed. Strangely, I've never met a woman who wanted to dedicate herself to celibacy. It is very sad. I know there is a McCartney song that has lyrics relating to us. Wanting the opposite sex so badly and yet each side feeling neglected and unloved.

designs

Its a powder keg waiting to blow up.

TD

What factors do you think emasculate men?

Social status comes in various forms. The traditional markers for men; the so called 'Alpha' traits are wealth, intelligence/education, physical prowess/attractiveness, confidence and ambition.

The JW social system stands this on its head by labeling most of those traits as 'wordly.' Social status in the JW organization revolves around a fuzzier set of criteria called 'Spiritual qualifications.' Attaining and holding those qualifications requires fairly generous amounts of subservience because status can be gained and lost virtually overnight. --Sometimes at the word of just a single individual. (e.g. An elder can lose his status at the word of a circuit overseer.) In this, the JW social system more closely resembles fascist and monarchical systems, where alliances become more important than actual rank.

We've had threads similar to this before and I've pointed out that although JW females rank lower than even ordinary men, they can be very adroit at the alliance side of social status. This can easily trump her husband's social rank.

james_woods

After being here a little more than one year, the men on this board do not seem to be wifebeaters.

Thank you for such a generous statement.

Not all the women here are man-hating womens lib extremists, either.

NewChapter

Any father that would cut off a child because 3 men decided in a secret meeting that he must do so, is completely emasculated. Worse, he is pathetic as a father and a man. Any man that would feel threatened by a strong woman in a leadership role, is completely emasculated. All efforts to suppress such occurances speak volumes. I find it incredibly masculine when a man defers to a woman, simply because it is the logical thing to do at the time. This person is sure of himself and who he is, and he does not need to oppress someone to prove he is a man. They have all been told they are weak and their strength comes from the ouside---there is nothing less manly or womanly about viewing yourself in such a manner.

My brother is one of the strongest most masculine men I know. No one would ever question his "manliness". But he will simply take his hat off and hand it over to any woman who is leaving him in the dust. It makes him smile, and he never looks weak. He doesn't need to reconstruct the world to build up his ego. THAT's masculine.

NC

Londo111

"Man has dominated man to his injury"--there are few places this is truer than the organization. Anytime there is a hierarchal system, people of all genders will be oppressed. The problem becomes not just that only males are expected to carry a heavier workload in the congregation (because more theocratic treadmill activity is what it amounts to), it is because there is a hierarchy to begin with. Once the arrow is removed, then you can deal with the poison.

Maybe it's because I am somewhat shorter than the average height, but I have noticed that Height often makes a difference. There are many elders who seem rather tall and there is a deference given to them. And in regard finding a mate, women usually tend to like tall men. Males of equal or lesser height are invisible, if not despised.

caliber

"There seems to be a paradox, as although women are subjugated, men are emasculated. I have heard non JWs mention how weakly JW men are. On the otherhand, my father was a CO and one common problem was wife beating. A number of elders were put down from their positions because of it."~~~~ JWFacts

"Social status comes in various forms. The traditional markers for men; the so called 'Alpha' traits are wealth, intelligence/education, physical prowess/attractiveness, confidence and ambition."

The JW social system stands this on its head by labeling most of those traits as 'worldly.' Social status in the JW organization revolves around a fuzzier set of criteria called 'Spiritual qualifications. ~~~~~TD

I think wife beating is a sign of lack of power. .... frustration, self-image issues.. what a real man is, for many of the above mentioned things

...A demand , a requirement for total control of you household including your teenage children (young adults ) from those seen appointed to be above you !

Is it fair that Men are collectively "guilty" of anything except being victims themselves of the system, just as women are ?

Twitch

After being here a little more than one year, the men on this board do not seem to be wifebeaters.

lol

mrsjones5

Well, it is a bit of a backhanded compliment.

Subjugation of Women

Share this