Subjugation of Women

by Band on the Run 39 Replies latest watchtower scandals

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  Violia

  I briefly went through a radical feminist attitude but try as I may, I like men and just could not hate them. I enjoy their company and many have been my best friends. I have seen wife beaters in the org and weak men also. There does seem to be a culture that favors dislike of women in the org. I once spoke with a Boe and flatly told one of them they hated women. The rest of the elders agreed with me. So I understand the culture of dislike of women, but it is not just an invention of the wts. It is everywhere. Men esp. lacking in education act this way. But then again I knew a man with a masters and a high level job and he felt women were here for his pleasure and the Bible gave him that right. That is the most common thing I have heard quoted to me, I was there for man's pleasure, not the other way around.

  I was there too ( 50's -70's) and saw it all. I will say that given the choice of working a 9-5 job and having a husband who earns enough for me to stay home- I'm taking the later. I worked for many years and got some education, including college. I don't regret doing it when i did as my children were teens and I was not needed so much at home. I still think a mother raising her own children is the best possible solution to day care.

  I do think a persons economic/social level factors into this to some degree our answers. Persons who come from poor homes without education can sometimes see more domestic abuse. However, there is no denying that domestic abuse crosses all social and cultural lines.
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  keyser soze

  After being here a little more than one year, the men on this board do not seem to be wifebeaters.

  Are you sure you're willing to go out on such a limb? You've only been observing us for a little more than one year.
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  Band on the Run

  I think poor people have greater stressors that trigger domestic violence. My father worked at the Bethel factory and then as a maintenance man. I used to think from TV that abuse was class related. I found out that I was very wrong.

  Some men know the pc words to use. They never call women, girls. Never call secretaries, girls. All the right lingo. NO sexual harassment. They can be even greater women haters than a man who calls women girls, secretaries girls, etc. I shared an office at large firm with a black lawyer. He said he hated the pc partners. He saw racism. Some white guy in his neighborhood, however, still called black people colored, and even used the n.... word without any malice. The family loved him b/c he had a great heart. Should he be penalized for not using correct terminology.

  I wonder if normal JWs hate women. Perhaps it is a JW elite position only. A completely dominant man must not have the same sexual satisfication of a nicer man. It is sad that these men don't see what they are losing with their antagonistic attitudes.
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  james_woods

  It is sad that these men don't see what they are losing with their antagonistic attitudes.

  Forgive me, but I was thinking the same thing about you, BOTR.
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  flipper

  BAND ON THE RUN- When I was married to my JW ex-wife for 19 yrs. ( divorced in 1998 ) I didn't ever LOOK at myself as in an " exalted position ". I always hated how JW men, especially elders strutted around dominating their wives and keeping imaginary invisible " duct tape " - so to speak - on their mouths so they would be kept under " control " .

  Although I was a ministerial servant for 6 years in the 1980's - I never wanted to be an elder. I saw the politics and manipulative control going on - manipulation of other men to GET the elders position - and how power went to these mens heads in dealing not only with their wives in a controlling way, but how they dealt with ALL JW females in the congregation ! It sickened me and was not my authentic personality to do that. My then JW wife always got annoyed at me telling me to " reach out " for elder after I stepped down as a MS and she would complain to me " You're my head you need to take more of a lead " ! I just told her that she had her OWN personal relationship with Jehovah and that I was " doing the best I can ".

  Evenually she remarried in 2003 to a newbie JW man who she probably was able to groom into being that " elder " husband she wanted, who knows ? I really don't care. I'm happy in my life now, and I hope she is too. At least I don't have to be pressured to be a " head " anymore. Mrs. Flipper and I have a equal say in our almost 6 yr. marriage. It works better that way - in my opinon.
• 

  TD

  I wonder if normal JWs hate women. Perhaps it is a JW elite position only. A completely dominant man must not have the same sexual satisfication of a nicer man.

  A phenomenon I have observed among JW males is called, 'Nice guy syndrome.' Although women can find themselves trapped in sexless marriages almost as easily as can men, 'Nice guy syndrome' occurs when it is the wife who has lost interest in sex.

  The husband interprets his wife's lack of interest in sex as a loss of love towards him personally. So he tries to win back her love though acts of kindness. I've seen male JW friends wring their hands and say, "I don't understand what's wrong. Candlelight dinners don't work. Cards don't work. Flowers don't work. Romantic getaways don't work. Spending quality time with her alone doesn't work. Gifts don't work. Cooking and cleaning for her doesn't work. The nicer I try to be, the more apathetic she becomes." The problem is that they never bother to tell their wives what their selfish motives are.

  The wife, on the other hand, interprets her husband's increased soliciitude as confirmation that he's perfectly happy and truly believes that they have a great marriage. She brags to her workmates about what a nice man her husband is and tells them it's because he's a JW.

  The whole thing is a comedy of errors where two people who should know each other better than anybody completely misread each other's signals. It flies in the face of some feminist preconceptions about men and I've heard some women scoff at the whole idea. Nevertheless, there are a lot of self-help books on the subject that try to teach men the balance between kindness and actively facilitating bad behavior. And these books have sold well enough to make their authors wealthy, so it's hardly a problem unique to JW's.

  But the JW approach to marriage promotes it. Since adultery is the only honorable reason to disolve a marriage in the JW social system, there's really no reason for an apathetic partner to ever change.
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  Sapphy

  The society is institutionallly sexist as is the congregation hierachy. It is assumed the brother is in charge regardless of the task at hand, and he usually is. The subjugation of women and the view of the woman as second class - sorry, 'a weaker vessel', is part of the religion's fabric. It's demeaning, degrading and insulting: wearing a headscarf to translate a brother's words?, a mature Christian Woman having to show subjection and let a 9 year boy say a prayer at the meeting for field service beacuse he got baptised - even if he is her son? Disgusting.

  However also, any man not in possession of or reaching out for 'privledges' is viewed as weak and worthless too.
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  skeeter1

  Women are the only minority that is a majority. Until each woman wins the battle within the confines of her home, she will not win the war of being a second class citizen in the world.
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  caliber

  "I wonder if normal JWs hate women. "

  I don't claim to have broad perspective , I have only been in small city KH's.... but I am hard pressed

  to think of any man who hated all women, the closest thing might be a bitterness by some who

  suffered repeated romantic rejection. ...Someone rejected as unworthy of the affections of anyone in the whole Hall !

  Which case it would be hate in this sense.. from a post I found

  "Hate can be the extreme love of anything.As in love,we want to be with the loved one,we want to think feel the love object.Our ego is merged in the wholeness of being with the person,or the object of love.We can say when self love is less (when we love our egos less,it is love--where we can love others--,where as extreme love of ourselves is hate.We hate to be not loved because we love ourselves to the extreme.We hate our beloved who ditches us,hurts us,because we love ourselves to the extreme that we cant stop negative destructive emotions for others entering in our minds,saying--i hate her/him"
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  Band on the Run

  James Woods,

  I am not a New York Times reporter here. I'm certain the New York Times pays much more compensation. I have an absolute right to describe my feelings. If you listed how women screwed you, I would never correct you b/c you are not making a statement of fact but rather your opinion. I cannot judge what you feel. You cannot judge what I feel.

  I know for a certainty that many women agree with me. Men should know how much women distrust them. No one made a statement about specific actors. You were not present for my JW adventures anymore than I have been around during your adventures. It takes chutzpah to correct my opinion. You can't fault what Krugman or David Brooks write on the opinion pages. If something on the front page is correct, you are free to get in touch with either the editors or ombudsman.

  I do not Need your approval. The WT distorts relationships between men and women. People who should be life partners become enemies with adverse interests. I am a very proud alumna of a Seven Sister. Hear us roar! I no longer play a compliant, deferential role to men. Oh, my, a man disagrees with me. How can I go on living. Tough luck.