Read a story of child neglect and abuse among JWs in S. Africa that was sent to me.

by AndersonsInfo 55 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

  • Broken Promises
    Broken Promises

    I agree with steve2 that the article is sensationalist in its style and content.

    It starts off with:

    Children of Jehovah’s Witnesses (JW’s) are regularly used and abused to do local house chores, home maintenance and garden work without proper remuneration or pocket money.

    Umm, excuse me? Since when has doing home chores and garden work been classed as "abuse"? We need to remember that SA familes are not all wealthy whites, so assigning housework and maintenance around the home chores to children is sometimes necessary. The author does not give any verifiable examples, but continues to breathlessly inform us of other apparent abuses.

    It's a pity the author hasn't been able to make a clean enough break from the JWs to be able to give details, or to allow another (non-JW) author to publish the information under their own name.

  • steve2
    steve2
    If every individual who endeavoured to tell his story of his WTS experience had to meet your standards of proof and a pre-requisite to "win you over with the facts", no story would ever be told. There is not a single abused child who can prove what happened to them . . . not without witnesses or an admission from the abuser . . . both of which are about as rare as rockinghorse shit.

    Again, you are mixing the "public"and the "private". Firstly, I have never ever suggested that an individual who comes forward to tell his or her story of abuse should be doubted and questioned as if s/he were before a court of law. Never ever - so don't equate my questioning of the writer with that kind of assertion please. On the other hand, if an unknown spokesperson comes forward and claims - probably with total good intent - to proclaim that sexual abuse is not only rife among South African JWs but, by the Watchtower's 2 witness rule, allowed to continue, I need to know the basis of such a claim. Notice, I am not saying it is not happening. I am merely saying to the writer - who does not identify as a victim of sexual abuse, but he could be - "on what basis are you making such a significant claim?" Yes, my language did not help - but I am weary of the ease with which groups here and there loudly condemn the Watchtower's approach to sexual abuse and do not follow minimum standards of reporting... and that does not mean naming names and identifying congregations.

    For too long, "experts" who really are not experts at all make sweeping claims that this issue or that issue is more prevalent among the JWs than in other groups. We had it with Jerry Bergman's unsubstantiated claims about the incidence of mental illness being significantly higher among JWs than in the general population. He buried his well-intentioned passion for helping unwell JWs in a plethora of scientific language about surveys and percentages. No one questioned him, Everyone said, "How impressive.We thought it was that bad". Sorry, not good enough by minimum standards of well-designed research.

    Now I could be accused of doubting any relationship between the Watchtower and mental illness. But, again, that is not my point. Nor is it my point with sexual abuse.

    Collapsing my position into cheap shots about not believing victims is reprehensible. While my language can be passionate at times, try to look beyond the language to what I am actually saying. I never said it would be acceptable if the incidence of abuse among the JWs was the same as other religions. Remeber who made the comparison: The write from South Africa. Nor did I ever state that a victim had to stand before a judge and provide the evidence. I said people making collective claims about what is going on in the organization needed to. Finally, what particularly got me to suspect the writer was not as concerned about fairness was his equally hyperbolic claims that JW parents in South Africa closely monitor their children's omputer use and associates - making it appear cultish and as I said in an earlier post, pathological. We get the point: The writer thinks JW parents can't do anything right: They abuse their children (or allow it to happen), they neglect them and, presumably not at the same time, are excessively protective of their children. That combination of acussations does not sit well with me. That it was picked up and disseminated without a smidgeon of inquiry tells me that, to some people, it doesn't matter what you say about the JWs- as long as it's negative they'll print it. That's fine. It's the internet. But to then roundly accuse anyone who questions the account of all manner of views on sexual abuse is nothing short of mischeivous.

  • sizemik
    sizemik

    Well I've read it several times now, including the links provided and I just don't see what you and BP do I'm afraid. It's a very comprehensive description of what life was like for this person, and includes details when taken in isolation do not constitute abuse, but still form part of the overall description . . . and that is acknowledged and commented on by the writer. If you choose to pick out comments made and present them as not constituting abuse, fine. I still hold to my opinion that this was not an attempt to sensationalise and throw filthy blankets over anyone . . . simply one mans perception of growing up JW in SA.

    And do I have to have my motive questioned because my opinion differs from yours? I'm not being mischevious about anything.

    Perhaps I could ask you this question . . . if the writer had registered here himself, and posted his observations, rather than going through Barbara . . . would you have labelled it "sensationalist" and a filthy blanket-hurling exercise? If so, perhaps you should read this thread again . . .

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/221745/1/I-feel-sad-when-someone-relatively-new-on-this-board-signs-off-because-they-have-been-offended-by-some-posters-comments

    It's a personal testimony, not worthy of such a hostile response IMHO.

  • Aussie Oz
    Aussie Oz

    marked for later

    Oz

  • Broken Promises
    Broken Promises
    It's a personal testimony

    Actually, it's not. The above article is NOT a personal story, but an accumulation of incidents that the author seems to know by hearsay.

    The excessive use of exclamation marks adds to the sansationalistic nature of the article.

    not worthy of such a hostile response IMHO

    Questioning the style of writing and the use of generalisations instead of facts is not hostile, but simply questioning the veracity of the information provided.

    Haven't we learnt not to accept anything just because someone says "I say so"???

  • irondork
    irondork

    tag

  • Hoffnung
    Hoffnung

    I feel that Steve2 take on the issue is more balanced.

    Doing house chores and maintenance on KH and bethels can become a slavery in extreme cases, but usually is not perceived as such. I guess we all had to the dishes and some cleaning job while still minors, and I do not think that is slavery. I assisted in building KH while younger than 18, and I loved it. I was volunteering. If somebody wants to have this classified as abuse, then I would expect some examples of exploitation, that demonstrate the abusive character, and unfortunately that is missing.

    The same can be said about the TV and internet censorship. It is hard to find a balance in what is ok and what is over the top. To really call this abuse, I would expect some real life examples.

    Notwithstanding this there is enough in the article that makes it worth reading, and it makes me disgust the society even more. The usual ways of elders to look the other side when there is a clear case of child abuse, silencing the victims and protecting the pedophiles for the sake of Gods name, and the blocking contact with disfellowshipped relatives, definitely has to be brought to the attention of the wider public. Thank you Barbara for postin.

    Unfortunately every WT apologist will use to the weak points to discredit the rest of the article, which is a shame.

    Hoffnung

  • steve2
    steve2

    Sizemilk, the writer does not appear to be talking about his own personal experience of suffering abuse at the hand of JW parents or other JWs. So, no, it does not appear to be a personal testimony.

    By sharp contrast, the writer appears to be a spokesperson who - and this is based on his account - goes beyond noting instances of sexual abuse - to very sweeping generalizations about South African JWs right through to and including parental over-protectiveness - which protectiveness is in my view almost the exact opposite of his initial allegations of abuse and neglect (again I ask, does the writer think JW parents in South Africa can get anything right - they even meet condemnation from him when they try to protect their children from potential sources of abuse from social media).

    As I have endeavoured to say throughout this post, more is expected of those who assert that the incidence of this problem or that problem is greater among the witnesses than among other groups, especially when those groups appear intent on marshalling a concerted case against the witnesses by questionning all manner of parenting styles within the organization, even parents who dare to be overly-protective.

    This has absolutely nothing to do with how I would respond to a courageous poster who opens up about their own - or their children's - suffering of abuse.

  • wha happened?
    wha happened?

    "I regard the information below as true until proven false....."

    This is actually what disturbed me.

  • Deceived
    Deceived

    It is indeed shocking, and I am have no doubt that some of this is true. So sad to hear.

    Is SA JW jargon the same as North American? Because over here we don't call the seats in the Hall Pews. This person said pews so it set me to wondering how much he was involved in the religion.

    Quote: "all while their parents sit “haughty” in the front pews during church meetings and this organization’s elders look the other way, or rather take their abusive parent’s side, when children bring these transgressions to light!"

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