The 1st line turned me off because it smells like a rumour mill. I'm going to make a statement and until someone disproves it, it's fact. Had that line been ommited I would have read this more opened minded. But in lieu of calling chores without monetary compensation, slavery, and the use of the word pews, I just can't hang much credibility on this post. There are real issues out there but sensationalism doesn't help the cause.
Read a story of child neglect and abuse among JWs in S. Africa that was sent to me.
by AndersonsInfo 55 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse
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elderelite
I hate to say anything in question the post because it sounds like im defending the actions.... BUT chores are not slavery. And to decry that the children wernt paid except in meals is frankly silly. In a harsh fincial situation, as much of south africa is and has been in, meals are saying something. Having grown up middle class in america had i gone to my father and said i wanted to be paid for chores he would have laughed and then slapped me, or at the very least laughed and said he wanted to be paid for chores himself. Chores are what we all do, adults and kids, to help the houshold function.
As for building projects, ive damn sure done more than fair share of slave laybor on those.... It is a crime that we work and then the society "owns" the buildings..... But really, we were all volunteer, we did it because we wanted to and we thought it was for a higher purpose. The use of kids as the center piece here feels like an emotional appeal with no dicernable point that dosent apply to adults as well... So why the child aspect focus...?
As for the sexual abuse.... Inexcusable, but pandemic in africa. Its a cult. We get it. We believe that. Allegations of child rape are horrific and this little cult isnt unique nor is it "gods organization" so that it dosent happen... I have no problem bringing it to light and protecting children. But when packaged with chores and kingdom hall cleaning as "slavery" it degrades the point and trivilizes the message.
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metatron
I would add that there is a consistent mistake that American types make when judging other cultures, namely, they try to hold them to the same standards.
This came up in all that controversy about child labor in 3rd world countries and how the US should fight it. Sadly, the answer isn't always that simple. In some countries, kids who don't work may end up sold into prostitution, starved or discreetly killed off. If you check into early US/British history, you find out things weren't that different.
The initial post is generally credible but looks hyped on details. Go figure....
metatron
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sizemik
I would add that there is a consistent mistake that American types make when judging other cultures, namely, they try to hold them to the same standards. . . . metatron
Agreed . . . people prefer to judge matters through the lenses of their own experience. A few moments reading similar accounts and other references to the differences in environment, culture, language and perception is too much for some. To do so might scuttle an opportunity to decry roundly . . . and that just wouldn't do now would it?
If you check into early US/British history, you find out things weren't that different. . . . metatron
You want people to actually check something for themselves? . . . a nice sentiment . . . but a big "If".
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LongHairGal
BARB ANDERSON: The whole thing sounds like a nightmare. I was particularly struck by the pedophile defense story where the young girl accuser was made to sound like she brought it on herself. What a hateful religion!
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sizemik
I contacted "the author" of the article and received the following reply . . .
These are NOT lies, deception or mere accusations, people! They are facts that the author PERSONALLY experienced and saw over several years in the past. He can be personally contacted at [email protected], but please allow some time for him to respond to your questions, because of a VERY busy schedule! These examples were used by him to give an idea of the situation in SA over the past 30years or so, things might be better now, maybe even worse. Fact is that he was an active JW for several years and personally know of each and every case that he listed here. The reference to "PEWS" in his document, as well as "CHURCHES" and "EX-COMMUNICATION" as found in the way of most church-languages, is used to give non-JW Christians a better understanding of terms, not ususally used by JW and the WBTSociety. He does NOT expect EVERYONE to believe this, but that is simply irrelevant, because the Elders in ALL these cases, ALSO called the complainants LIARS!!! So take it or leave it, it's all the same to Him. He hasn't gained anything from telling these stories that personally affected him, his family and/or friends, but makes it known now, after years of collecting and receiving information from others, in the hope of warning other active JW's and those proposing to begin studying with Jehovah's Witnesses in especially SA, getting insight into what is REALLY going on behind the scenes! If they choose to continue as JW's or want to start studying as such, good for them, no grudges beared...
Recent meetings between the author and local Elders who asked him to return to their Society on at least three occasions, has ALSO not resulted in ANY rectifications of theses matters, so he does NOT expect anything to come of it, save being able to help one or two individuals to see the REAL Truth in this Organisation and to steer well clear of them. Heartfelt thanks to those people that trusted and believed him in this matter and God's blessings on you all!
- Llewellyn du Toit
Additionally . . . prior to the mid eighties and in many cases well after 1990 . . . many white SA households were attended to by "domestic help" . . . unpaid live-in black workers, usually women. In many cases these too suffered abuse. Children did chores but were rewarded to distinguish them from the "help." For a child to be burdened with chores without reward was to consign them to the same status. It was like punishment. It's a cultural difference . . . and a debate in itself . . . but given here as an example of how descriptions may not fit gracefully in to our own cultural perception. His article is obviously designed for general consumption . . . but mainly targeting the SA public.
You can read more here . . . but you will need a JSTOR log-in (Uni student ID). If you don't have one, I would recommend it.
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sizemik
Haven't we learnt not to accept anything just because someone says "I say so"???
Actually . . . I thought we'd learned how to validate information for ourselves. It took just under 8 minutes to find the above information and about 5 other links as well as the ones provided . . . and that includes my inquiry to the writer and posting his reply.
If you want to just sit on your lazy ass and shoot your uninformed skepticism from the hip . . . go ahead . . . I'm sure JWN needs more of them.
And if you took Steve2's reaction as a mere questioning of the validity . . . I suggest you read it again.
Child abuse issues are hard enough to expose . . . I would think 8 minutes of your time while you sit in your "comfy chair" is not too much to ask.
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Broken Promises
Sizemik,
Over the years I've seen all sorts of claims made by people on this board. People can say whatever they like, even that there are Bethelites hiding in closets.
I was commenting on the article that was presented by Babara in this thread. It is an article full of generalisations and exclamation marks - a typical sign of sensationalism. What good is the article if there's nothing concrete in it?
Good for you if you've gone and read other articles by the author. But I am commenting on THIS ONE. My criticism is for THIS ONE. I'm happy for you if you've got the time to spend hours reading other websites but some of us are busy reclaiming the life stolen from us by the WTS. So please excuse me if I haven't got much spare time these days.
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james_woods
The 1st line turned me off because it smells like a rumour mill. I'm going to make a statement and until someone disproves it, it's fact. Had that line been ommited I would have read this more opened minded. But in lieu of calling chores without monetary compensation, slavery, and the use of the word pews, I just can't hang much credibility on this post. There are real issues out there but sensationalism doesn't help the cause.
What Wha Happened said above expresses exactly what I thought when I first read it.
My simple question: What actual good does it do to promote this kind of sensationalistic information?
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sizemik
So everyones a Rick Fearon by default until they can prove otherwise? . . . . OK
I don't have hours to spare . . . the 8 minutes I spent has been mentioned 3 times now . . . why do you misrepresent me as having all this time on my hands inferring that I am undamaged by the WTS unlike "some of us"? I find that exrtremely insulting.
You've spent more than 8 minutes here already . . . tearing down. If you're that short of time to simply verify something . . . why spend even more time tearing it down? No, I won't excuse you.