Read a story of child neglect and abuse among JWs in S. Africa that was sent to me.

by AndersonsInfo 55 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

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  wha happened?

  ok just so everyone here is clear, I am not an opponent of Barbara Anderson. As I have stated many times before, she has provided an enormous amount of inside info, of a religion that we all thought we were in the know. From what I understand because of her character, she has been a special witness on some court hearings. Everytime she posts something anywhere, I look forward to reading it.

  I didn't like the artlcle. I still don't and I stated why. I want everything to be bullit proof so sometimes when I hear news, Im skeptical until the facts are solid. This is because I know that anyone who really disagrees is going to do just that. So really pointing out a weakness in one article is hardly being over critical.
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  TheOldHippie

  Shocking and sad how Andersons and other can believe such nonsense and how they even spread it as "truth".

  Most shockingly stupid nonsense letter I ever read, and respect for Andersons just fell some 98 % ...........
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  sizemik

  I had wondered in passing how long it would take Sizemilk to return to further comments about me.

  One comment actually . . . and I notice you didn't dispute it's content. But plural makes it sound way better I guess.

  He does give a shit - just like a bad-tempered dog who refuses to relinquish tha darn bone.

  Nice analogy . . . gives great weight to your argument. But you're right . . . I do give a shit about abused children.

  Wow! He has been in contact with the author.

  In contact with lots of people actually . . . but I posted his reply because I thought it might be helpful.

  Tried to accuse those posters of not believing that sexual abuse is a problem among the witnesses etc. As I responded earlier, that is mischievous.

  It would be if it were true. Which posters? Quotes please?

  makes sweeping claims about almost every other apsect of life in the kingdom halls and states that it is worse than in other groups.

  I don't believe he compared JW's to any other groups. Perhaps I missed that? Quote?

  Steve . . . I'm genuinely sorry that you are a victim. It's what makes this a weighty issue IMO . . . the victims. Therefore it is one to be treated with due respect. The author was simply writing a blog . . . encompassing his own experiences along with events of which he has personal knowledge. His post was "blanket" in that it was all-encompassing and related to a period of thirty years. From the minor disadvantages of growing up JW to the most heinous of abusive acts . . . he touched on it all. It was never intended to be some ground-breaking scandelous newsflash that sets SA apart from everyone else . . . simply one mans testimony to the world of the JW's as he saw and experienced them. His motive is clear from his final paragraphs.

  Really . . . there is nothing included that most XJW's can't identify with . . . and it's related from the view of an ex-member to an unsuspecting, unenlightened public. Some things might have been different or worse . . . but in most western countries it is largely the same story.

  In the absence of the comparison with other groups that you assert . . . and your own experience of abuse . . . maybe it did get to you as you say.

  I've got nothing left on my bone I'm afraid . . . except to say thanks to Barbara and Llewellen for keeping us informed.

  Yes oldhippie . . . we know what you're here for.
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  steve2

  Thanks Sizemilk for the considered response. I guess when a blog is genuniely heartfelt and is one man's view of what he has observed inside the JWs it is more readable. Perhaps it was his choice of words or the unending exclamation marks, but it does read as literally expansive criticism of everything South African JW parents do. Like a screaming newspaper headline it atracts not just readership but questions. Of course I could have contacted the author but I wasn't aware that a new threshold for opinion-sharing had been established. When I read the authro's story, I reacted the same way I reacted when I would read blanket condemnations of others in the Watchtower literature: It seems over the top and lacking in a balanced appraisal. It portrays the "other's" behaviour as utterly despicable and evil. I also react when people - any people, JW, ex-JW, or people indifferent to the religion - claim that specific behaviours are more prevalent or less prevalent among the JWs.

  None of this is questioning a person's self-disclosed accounts of suffering abuse within the religion or any person who seeks to raise awareness about the increased vulnerability of children to sexual abuse in religions such as JWs that have archaic rules on standards of evidence (the atrocious 2 witness rule, absence of automatic reporting to the police, etc).
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  TheOldHippie

  Yes oldhippie . . . we know what you're here for.

  Oh, yeas, sorry, I forgot - this site is only for those who believe that all rumours and everything manufactures that is 100 % damaging to the JW community is absolutely true and has to be so, because nothing good at all can ever comesfrom the JW community, it just HAS TO BE 100 % evil all the time.

  Sorry, I forgot that - I'll never repeat that silly mistake of mine.
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  Alfred

  NEGLECT AND CHILD ABUSE WORLDWIDE:

  Forcing small children to endure two hours or more of excruciating heat and humidity while wearing uncomfortable clothing in Field Service (with no water breaks)...
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  MMXIV

  Firstly, I have upmost respect for Andersoninfo and the quality of the evidence that's been gathered over the years is generally excellent.

  I don't believe that we should accept something as true unless it is proven false and from my limited experience on the board over the last two years this isn't what I've seen done. More likely people are sceptical and weigh up the evidence before deciding if they believe it or not.

  However we have had many posters who are unable to write their story well or effectively articulate their argument but this doesn't mean what they say is untrue.

  My only addition is to corroborate a side point that Sizemik wrote: Additionally . . . prior to the mid eighties and in many cases well after 1990 . . . many white SA households were attended to by "domestic help" . . . unpaid live-in black workers, usually women. In many cases these too suffered abuse.

  I can validate this. A colleague admitted (boasted) to carrying out such serialised abuse in his former homeland. This happened in the late 90's and involved several of his family members too. I can only imagine that the poor girl had little option due to economic hardship. This was not connected to JW's in any way.

  mmxiv
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  sizemik

  Steve . . . I assure you any response from me is carefully considered, even if strongly worded.

  The failure here is simply context. Some understanding of SA society and practices during the time period mentioned is essential . . . it cannot possibly be seen in the context of a North American or NZ/Aust society. Vulnerables, including blacks and children of all races, were heavily exploited and abused in some quarters. It's against this backdrop that these practices persisted . . . among the JW's along with other contributors from all sectors of SA society. Exploitation of children for labour has been a prevalent feature . . . and it shouldn't be a surprise that the local JW's took some advantage of this cultural permissiveness. Barbara, in her introduction revealed that she has been the recipient of much information on this over a sustained period, as a qualifier. It's a take it or leave it on her input from there.

  As you quite rightly noted . . . the lack of police reporting and 2-witness rule only exacerbated a carry-over problem among the JW's . . . as could be expected. The blog was not tailored to an ex-JW audience but rather as a comprehensive exposé of what can be considered abusive practices. While at the lower end of the scale . . . many I've personally met in the D2D work considered hauling my children around the neighbourhood to be a form of abuse . . . and told me so. I now agree . . . and have apologised to my children. While it may seem minor alongside extreme sexual abuse . . . it is still a negative part of a JW upbringing and the author has a right to say so to an otherwise indifferent public.

  I don't propose any new thresholds for opinion sharing . . . but a thread such as this is not the same as discussing the merits of brussell sprouts or the best way to celebrate valentines day. When a personal testimony such as this is presented . . . complete with links etc., I do feel the subject deserves to be treated with the importance and seriousness it deserves. A few moments checking context and additional information is not a lot to ask in the circumstances.

  The over-use of exclamation marks seems petty IMO. 20-odd exclamation marks in a 1500+ word essay is liberal . . . but not necessarily excessive. I've seen more in a single line here before.

  A nice outcome for me personally . . . is to make contact with another XJW from another land who is really no different from us. He has seen, experienced and suffered at the hands of WTS deceit, and is passionate about exposing it and helping others avoid the same fate. He is doing what he can. Writing style aside, there is nothing in the content I find unbelievable. It is very much similar to what other, more stable societies are unearthing (eg; Australia). While the majority of JW's are not like this . . . it is still a significant number, as are the victims.

  @MMXIV . . . thanks for the input re context.

  @oldhippie . . . thanks for the statistical analysis. It would be great if everything was either 0% or 100%. Some might see that as B&W thinking however. Although, I see you still have 2% respect for the Andersons (assuming it was 100% prior) . . . I'm sure they will be thrilled.
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  james_woods

  Just to be sure I was being fair - I went back and re-read the entire letter.

  I was being fair.

  It reads like tabloid trash from the weekly standard.

  I ask again: What possible good can come from spreading this kind of sensationalism?
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  steve2

  Sizemilk, I respect where you are coming from and accept that your tolerance for how something comes across in writing is far higher than mine. I am inclined to agree with James Woods about how the author's account "reads". The account would not be out of place in a tabloid expose type newspaper whose style is overblown, creating an impression that JW parents cannot do anything right (which has been well aired in my earlier responses). These types of exposes remind me of the kind of shock! horror! exposes written by fundamentalists that were thrust in my face by well meaning people when I was a kid.

  To me it is simple: How something is written is as important as what is written - especially on topics that are far worthier of serious consideration than less important topics such as brussle sprouts.

  I should also add that my comments about how something is written by seeming spokespeople have nothing to do with the heartfelt disclosures individual's may make about their suffering as children at the hands of abusive adults, whether those abusive adults were JWs or other religionists.