The gun is the SHUN: the JW's who no longer believe but cannot leave! (page 2)

Yan Bibiyan

A very, very loose interpretation on the JW leadership part of the Second Amendment..

Good to see you brought this topic up and glad I scanned the active topics before posting, especially since your thread is pithy and straight to the point. You know I have a tendency to pontifficate......

"IS THERE ANY SOLUTION?"...Terry....understand their reason and decision to go back....no matter how clandestine one must be, let them know they have support on the outside along with a safety net to fall back on, in the event their uncovered.

We have no idea what the wts will do in the future to squeeze every drop of allegiance out of the R&F.

garyneal

I know a married couple who were each the children of Congregation Elders and who secretly celebrate Christmas but who can quickly remove all traces of this when the grandparents come to visit. They are compelled to live like Bootleggers hiding a still from Federal agents!!

Recently, my wife took my oldest daughter to one of her friend's birthday party at Chick-Fil-A. If any witness had um, witnessed, her being there, there could be consequences. In fact, the ironic thing about that whole day was that upon our arriving home, Brother Sidekick and his wife was at one of our neighbor's door looking for us. He just wanted to show me 'proof' that their Nisan 14 date for their memorial was backed by scholarship (which I was not buying) but after they left I commented to my wife, "What if they knew you were at a birthday party today?"

This past Valentine's Day, my wife bought me and my daughters candy, bought me a Valentine's Day card and made one each for our two girls. She also ordered pizza so I would not have to cook that night. What would the elders think if she were to be found out? I wanted to share that bit of joy with our youngest one's babysitter but I had to refrain because she is a Jehovah's Witness. Everytime I find myself censoring myself like that around them I think, WTH? I am not one of them, why am I bounding myself like that?! But, I do it for my wife who is obviously leading a double life.

I think in her case, she believes in God and some of the fundamentals of the religion. She just does not believe in every bit of the doctrines concerning celebrations and the like. I'm willing to bet that there are a LOT of witnesses like her who if they could would openly celebrate most holidays and birthdays and not take such a dim view of other churches. The problem is, they cannot openly voice these for fear of being label in any negative way. It would do her and other witnesses like her a great service if they were able to meet and discuss things like this without fear.

THE GLADIATOR

The "gun" is the SHUN - is a great expression. It only works if members that want to leave, give in to the fear of the threat.

My family Fired the gun but it blew up in their faces. Other family members left and sided with me. The sad baskets left behind are the losers. They are dying like flies while the apostate side are thriving.

Perhaps my gods are more powerful than theirs? Hail Caesar!

MAS*H

I would recommend caution. In my younger days I would have said not to worry about the cons too much, as the pros are too fab for words!

This may sound dramatic, but I now believe some are "too far gone" to be safely removed. One such case I've personally witnessed has coloured my judgement completely. A sister with two children encouraged to leave the Borg and ministerial hubby. Once out, to be cold, she could not cope. She had no friends, no family to help, no partner, no support structure... she wasn't exactly dancing through fields of pretty flowers enjoying her new found freedom. What's more as she grew up in the Borg she seemed to lack the ability to operate in "da real world". Making friends, joining clubs, etc... etc.. was alien to her... I wont describe the fall out - but it safe to say it has not been pretty, and I often ask myself 'would she have been better off staying in?'.

Also it's important to remember that despite "coming out", some may still have hang-ups for many years to come. Once out, old fears can weigh heavy, especially on those brainwashed from childhood - this can cause depression - I've seen this too! I personally, years after leaving, suddenly started having nightmares about Armageddon - what's even more strange is that I never believed the religion growing up - so the impact on a ex-true-believer could be even greater. More trivially, I don't know about anyone else, but for years I had an uneasy feeling on Tuesday and Thursday night, almost like I should be 'doing' something?!

I suppose what I would say is, if you personally are encouraging someone out of the borg, perhaps you should consider their support partly your own responsibility once the JW rug has been yanked from under them. Consider if they have other friends, or are they social creatures capable of making new friends. Do they have hobbies!? Other non-dub family members? etc... etc...

Some are very gung-ho when it comes to this type of thing, but from my experience things don't always turn out as you might think.

Justitia Themis

With your permission, I would like to use a form of "the gun is the shun."

outsmartthesystem

Terry.....I've said it before. Any elder will tell you that you have the "Christian Freedom" to decide for yourself whether or not witnesses have the truth. But look at the expense such "freedom" comes with? I believe very much that deciding no longer to be associated with the witnesses is very similar to deciding not to pay your property taxes or your electric bill. Yes...you have the "freedom" to make those decisions. But not paying your property taxes can result in losing your house. Not paying your electric bill can result in losing your electricity. So do you have the "freedom" to pay such expenses? Technically yes.....if you want to face those gruesome consequenses. Being a witness is no different. You have the "freedom" to disagree and walk away....but at what price?

When consequences of freedom begin to outweigh the benefits of freedom....then is it really freedom at all? Or is it a facade? A world wide, organized emotional blackmail strategy?

Phizzy

Every persons leaving experience will be different, and its effect on that person. For a true believing born-in who wakes up and leaves it must be doubly difficult, as the above experience shows ,many such are ill-equipped for the journey ahead.

I view my leaving the borg much like it must have been for those who left the U.K in the fifties on the deal where you paid only ten pounds for your one way ticket to a new life in Australia. As the ship left the port, perhaps family and friends were there to wave good-bye, but even so, good-bye meant for life.

New friends had to be made by the "whingeing Poms" as the old country may well never be visited again. You may possibly see your family a bit over the years, but you couldn't count on it.

Every family is different, and if you are unfortunate enough to be DF'd you will be permanantly in "Australia". But it may not be as bad as some think, if you can fade and just seem inactive you can keep family relationships going to a degree, the old "friends", probably not.

The shun may be the gun, but if we can remove the abject fear from some, they may just walk away and not suffer too much.

dgp

And this policy is enforced by shuns of the gun .

time2keepmoving

I know I did'nt have as much to lose as others since only my sister is still in (the rest of my family and friends are not witnesses). I do miss my sister and I hate that she has taken the position to not speak to me and listen to them; but we are both grown adults and if that's what she chooses to do with her life, then this is where we part ways. I can't make someone do something they don't want to do, I can only control my environment, not someone else's.

Now they got her on a island by herself. No one is a JW but her and she knows damn well the witnesses are fair-weather friends. They will not be there when the going get tough like her own family. Yet these are the people she is putting her trust in so I hope it works out for her. I'm not going to frustrate myself or waste anymore of my life trying to convince someone they should leave, if it works for her, fine. I'm gone, I'm going to live MY life.

I can't live hiding, lying and ducking from people so I can stay in my sister's good grace, that's madness! I'm too old for that foolishness. Whatever I do am going to do it with integrity to myself, I can't live any other way. I refuse to live any other way.

Not only that, am a grown adult who is more than capable of taking care of myself and I hope to now be able to do for others as well in my community in the way of volunteering. So, I don't have to explain myself to anybody but Jesus Christ himself! The JW's are not my saviors, they are not my master, and they sure as hell can't judge me!

Sometimes we have to make very hard choices, and I know it can't be easy if the majority of your family, wife, husband, children, etc. are wrapped up in this cult. Yet if you stay and you know it's a lie, a sham - you are just killing yourself slowing.

In my opinion, that's no way to live and am sorry, I'm not going to end up depressed, on medication, lonely, frustrated, unfulfilled, unable to pursue the goals that make me whole and complete and enjoy the little things in life without being made to feel guility just to push watchtowers and awakes for some big-box printing corporation who could gives two blankie-blanks about me, cause they got my other family members by the throat.

I can only pray she comes to her senses, like I did - but I ain't looking back.

The gun is the SHUN: the JW's who no longer believe but cannot leave!