Cofty you have a PM
british press have knifes out for Richard Dawkins
by highdose 115 Replies latest jw friends
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NewChapter
I think what irritates me about the attack on Dawkin's character is that it is an attack often launched against me. Dawkins speaks, but he is saying what many of us think. He is criticized for arrogance, because he refuses to validate ideas that he has pretty much debunked. This is a common criticism against many atheists---hell, I used to fling the same criticism.
My brother was an atheist when I was a believer. The thing that irked me was his 'arrogance'. He couldn't seem to respect my beliefs in any way, although he respected me in every other area. This felt like arrogance to me. Now that my brain has been opened, I see it more fully for what it was. He was not going to be bullied into pretending my ideas were okay, when he was convinced they were not. He could say it was okay for me to hold those ideas, as that is my right. I was the arrogant one to try and demand that he actually respected those ideas.
I could not stand by and pretend that someone's unshakable belief in unicorns is just okay and just as valid as my own ideas. I can respect their right to hold such a notion. And if I want to throw around the arrogant card, I could even insist that stubbornly believing in something with absolutely no testable evidence, just cuz that's they way they want it to be, is the height of arrogance.
So while I can be okay with whatever a person believes, I am not okay with the beliefs themselves, and I won't be pressured into pretending anything else. Because this forum debates, and magnifies the differences between us at times, the language can be harsher and more direct. Facial expressions and body language do not soften any approach, as we are forced to digest each other's words without the physical editing. I really am okay with other people believing. Sometimes I even see benefits they gain from their view. I just don't want to have to pretend, in any way, that they have a valid point. Best not to discuss some things at certain times.
But in a debate---we have invited harsh criticism. If we can't take it---then don't debate. No one asks anyone to challenge Dawkins, but everyone knows how he will respond. Rather than attacking his ideas, they attack his delivery. And really, his delivery is perfectly logical. He hears the same argument over and over. His best option is to make sure his ideas are out there and public for the young ones. Many of us have changed our minds after reading Dawkins, but it is the young ones that will benefit as he seeks to protect science education, and protect them from those that seek to suppress such knowledge.
NC
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cofty
Everything that NC just said.
I think there is an assumption that its rude to criticise religious beliefs - why? Some of us don't buy into this cosy assumption and others assume it is arrogance.
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cofty
Cofty you have a PM - 00DAD
Read it - behave yourself.
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00DAD
Cofty, you made it! I waited ever so long then I had to go!
Welcome! Still want to fight?
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cyberjesus
can i just point out that i meant this thread to be about Dawkins and not about 00DAD?
People are responding to 00DAD statements.... and not Dawkins's
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cyberjesus
I have heard those comments about him before I knew who he really was.. I was a believer.... then I listen to him debate..... then I watched his videos, then I listen a lecture...... What did I learn? That those attacks are not only not substantiated but they are the last thing his attackers can try to use since no one can logically show me in err..
mmmm what do i say hmmm what do i say now?..... you are a pompous arrogant ass.
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bohm
Re. 00DAD:
The double standard is strong in this one.
I do not defend dawkins as much as I point you that when you call him a "pompeous arrogant little asshole" based on some nasty thing he said which you forgot in the meantime, then im kind of thinking to myself i never actually heard dawkins call anyone a pompeous arrogant little asshole. What he is saying is a lot more tame and watered down -- so if im supposed to judge him as a "little asshole" because of what he say, what would that make you based on your own standard?
Also the nonsence you wrote: "curious about your need to defend dawkins. He is a big boy, you know.", dont play stupid. It should hardly puzzle you that i think you and dawkins have freedom of expression, and the mock-surprise on your part is ill-consieved (as is the condescending "big boy"), especially when i never actually wrote a defence for dawkins. Read my posts again if you are still under that impression.
I am not surpriced do not provide a sample of what dawkins has said which make you judge him with the words you use. As you aknowledge, it is a reasonable request, and it would make your double standard more clear.
As for the huffing and puffing about "taking it outside", no thanks. You wrote somewhere you were a scientist, is that where you picked up the phrase?
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zagor
I'm not religious in any shape or form but for my taste he lacks class and dignity. Every word that comes out of his mouth is in essence "you dumb-f..ks" You just can't do that no matter how much of an expert you are.
Such methods will never make anyone rethink his postion but rather make people aggitated, polarized and waiting for their turn to strike whenever they can, which is exactly what is happening right now. "Oh God" is silly of course and in reality if any othe scientist has said it people would have barely registered it. Fact is, it has nothing to do with god and everything with his attitude. Not everything in life is a fist-fight.
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cofty
Every word that comes out of his mouth is in essence "you dumb-f..ks"
Can you think of a specific example whenhe has behaved this way? I have heard many of his talks and debates and never seen anything even close to this.