Theists, why does God allow suffering.. (page 27)

cofty

Have you thought about what we meant by the word "perfect"?

It really dosn't have any practical meaning. It's just a fantasy, magic word.

DuvanMuvan

How does a perfect human get deceived in the first place? And what about the eyes being "opened" after they ate the fruit? Did god create humans without the ability to think for themselves?

These are some of the things that made me sure that the story of Adam and Eve is just that. A story.

Off topic but I have this theory that originally the story of Adam and Eve was about where our sexual desires or something came from. Like this is what the eyes being opened was about and that's why they realised that they were naked after they ate it. (Also why they didn't have any children before eating the fruit) After this they had sex, god deemed them unclean/imperfect and banished them from the garden and stopped them having eternal life as punishment.

Men dominating their wives in ancient Israel could come from the whole "Eve being made FOR Adam" idea of the story and the fact that she gave Adam the fruit is sort of like the evil harlots that tempt men for fun you read about in the bible

rubbeng

marked

defender of truth

It seems that neither the Faithful Slave nor the Bible can answer this question.. How can anyone believe in a loving God.. that not only 'dented the bread pan', He even went so far as to put a dent in every kind of animal that was to ever exist? Either that or the paradise was originally filled with cancer-ridden monkeys, as well as Lions tearing their prey to pieces as Adam and Eve sat there having a picnic.. Although man did supposedly have the animals in subjection? ?
Did our lifestyle/pollution damage them somehow, with the various carnivores only becoming like that after the flood? Confused..

defender of truth

^^ The above reasoning was given to me by an experienced Witness, in case you're wondering why I'd talk about pollution and us ruining the earth.. I'm having a hard time reading the bible nowadays, Jehovah doesn't seem to care about animals at all, and that does not sit well with me.

defender of truth

..???

DATA-DOG

The "righteous one" CARES for the soul of his domestic animal... Some JWs will speculate the after the flood Jeehoober made the animals afraid of people, because humans could now eat them. The domesticated animals are to be cared for, but the wild ones are on their own. All creation is subjected to futility. Don't worry though. As soon as Jeehoober let's enough humans and animals die, he can say, " Told you so!!!" to "Satan." Evidently the sexless angels are too dumb to realize that God is right without witnessing Billions of deaths. That makes sense because the angels could not write the bible for us either, since they have no human feelings. Except hornyness...err..evidently....

Anyways, Jeehoober will soon vindicate his name of all the accusations resulting from the untold suffering he allowed so as to vindicate his name from accusations...

DD

cofty

Did our lifestyle/pollution damage them somehow, with the various carnivores only becoming like that after the flood? - Defender of truth

Every single feature of an animal like a cheetah is "designed" to catch and kill.

Camouflague, eyesight, hearing, claws, teeth, gut, skeleton, respiratory system, muscles, even down to the specific proteins in it's muscle fibres.

The same can be said for every predator and it's prey. The natural world is unmitigated carnage.

Apognophos

I'm having a hard time reading the bible nowadays, Jehovah doesn't seem to care about animals at all, and that does not sit well with me.

Indeed, God isn't too fond of animals, the first time they were useful for anything was to skin a couple or a few of them to clothe Adam and Eve (even though they were already wearing clothing made from fig leaves). After that, for a long while they were mostly useful for sacrifices.

Likewise, my experience with upper-echelon Witnesses working at the headquarters was that they were, to a man, lacking in compassion for animals and looked askance at someone who would own a pet and actually be attached to it.

It's much easier to understand why the writers of the Bible don't seem to care about animals when one considers the mindset of a person living at that time. It wasn't exactly an option for someone to go vegetarian; they needed all the protein and fat they could get. Compassion for animals (and for each other) was mostly a luxury they couldn't afford. It was a hardscrabble life.

defender of truth

Interesting page..
“And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth. And the waters prevailed, and were increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters. And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered…. And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man: All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died. And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth.”

This was not a quick or clean death. The human beings and animals left behind probably would have felt the first stirrings of anxiety as they saw the rain begin to fall and the water level begin to rise. As rivers overflowed their banks, they would have had to abandon their homes and move to higher ground, to watch mudslides and flash floods sweep away the villages and any who were left behind in them. As the many separate floods began to merge and the raging waters rose higher, they would have been forced to keep climbing, pursued by lightning, howling winds and lapping waves. Upon reaching the highest ground possible and discovering that the flood waters were still rising, there would have been nothing left to do but cower in the last extremity of terror and wait to be overtaken. Their end would not have been pleasant: battered and crushed by rocks and currents, suffocated in mud and silt, and finally pulled under and drowned. The flood waters must have been choked with bodies. "
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/daylightatheism/essays/a-book-of-blood/

Theists, why does God allow suffering..

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