Theists, why does God allow suffering.. (page 44)

defender of truth

I said: "Ablebodiedman, do you think that animals did not hunt each other before mankind existed?"
You replied:"I really do not know the answer to that question.."
..........
"Entelodonts lived in the forests and plains where they were the apex predatorsof North America's early Miocene and Oligocene, consuming carrion and live animals and rounding off their diets with plants and tubers. They would have hunted large animals, like the cow-sized artiodactyl Eporeodon major and the sheep-sized cameloid Poebrotherium wilsoni, dispatching them with a bite from their jaws. Some fossil remains of these other animals have been found with the bite marks of entelodonts on them."
"Entelodonts, sometimes nicknamed hell pigs or terminator pigs, are an extinct family of pig-like omnivores endemic to forests and plains of North America, Europe, and Asia from the late Eoceneto early Miocene epochs (37.2—16.3 million years ago)"

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entelodont

defender of truth

Ablebodiedman said:

"If those most intelligent men are allowed to continue then I think the earth and its creatures are doomed to even more immense suffering far beyond anything we have witnessed or can presently understand.
I hope Jesus Christ comes soon!"
Why is He allowing them all to suffer and be brutally murdered, along with allowing yet more animal species to slide towards extinction, right now?
What does your 'hope' do for animals today? And what does Jesus do for them?

defender of truth

If anyone is still interested in this topic, (which I doubt), please read the following article.
Here are a couple of quotes:

" Modern theistic philosophers like Michael Murray still argue that animals cannot feel pain at the same level humans do because they lack self-awareness (a highly controversial philosophy).
Professor Bernard Rollin disagrees with them, facetiously recommending that anyone who denies that animals can feel pain should test their hypothesis by using a pair of vice grips to squeeze the balls of a large doberman. "

....
"For example, Christianity teaches us 'It’s our own fault we suffer, it is a consequence of sin and the fall of man, and we are all sinners like Adam.' But animals did not sin against God, and therefore should not be punished as equals. They seem to suffer only as collateral damage in a conflict between man and God."
http://500questions.wordpress.com/2013/01/27/42-why-does-god-allow-animals-to-suffer/

Heartofaboy

If human parents abandoned a house of children to fend for themselves over a bet, then they shouldn't be surprised the inexperience of their children would result in some dangerous situations.

It is the fault of the parents who would be rightly accused of neglect.

God has left the human family to fend for themselves over a bet. We have an old book with some helpful stuff like 'Thou shalt not murder' etc, but by & large humans feel they are on their own.

It is not the fault of humans that we have gotten ourselves into some dangerous situations............The fault is with the parent, God.

defender of truth

"We can plainly see that the objection is not valid - just because I myself do not believe a certain thing exists *does not mean I can't point out that it is inconsistent with something else*. In the same way, even if I did not believe morality was objective, I would still be able to make the argument that the immense amount of animal suffering in the world is objectively inconsistent with a God with the properties of omnipotence and omni-benevolence.
I am NOT trying to hold God to my own standards of right and wrong. Rather, I am showing how certain properties of the world are inconsistent with God's attributes. I have no need to appeal to any kind of objective morality to do that."

.....
"The argument is that God, with his given attributes, would choose to minimise animal suffering to the best of his capabilities. It is clear from the terrible amount of animal suffering in the world that this is not the case, so it counts as strong evidence against Christianity."
http://www.debate.org/debates/The-Problem-of-Animal-Suffering./1/

James Brown

Information that I recieved from talking to bible believing ministers at my job at the county jail.

Everyone owes God one death.

Life can decide to go into the darkness or the light after the one death.

The pain and suffering in this world is mind numbing,

Its terribel to observe and be aware of.

One way I deal with it is

"Everyone owes God one death"

and we can decide if we go into the light or the darkness.

The darkness is seperation from God.

I know this is not an award winning response.

On a scale of 1-10, I give it a 5.1

But in my personal economy and the way I see life, I give the idea of no God a 4.9

My scales are slightly tilted towards God,

I do wish things were better for everyone.

defender of truth

James Brown, why do animals 'owe God one death'? Animals have nothing to prove, they have no sin to pay for, they are incapable of it. Your reply doesn't address the topic: Why is God allowing animals to suffer needlessly?...
Please ask the ministers how they explain animal suffering being allowed by a loving God.

James Brown

Defender.

If you read my post.

I said, I know this is not an award winning answer. I only give it 5.1 on a scale of 10.

And at 62 years of age turning over rocks looking for answers, it is the best I can do.

Animal suffering sucks.

I am not aware of a better answer.

If you take more comfort in believing there is no God, then comfort to you.

It al sucks.

There might not be any God and this life may be all there is

which also sucks.

because I am haviing a good time and I don't want to leave.

defender of truth

James Brown said: "Defender.
If you read my post.
I said, I know this is not an award winning answer. I only give it 5.1 on a scale of 10."

I did read your post, James. You give your answer 5.1?
It wasn't really an answer at all, because 'Everyone owes God one death.
Life can decide to go into the darkness or the light after the one death.' doesn't even address the question of this topic: Why does God allow animals to suffer, right now and for countless years in the past?

....
James Brown also said: "it is the best I can do.
Animal suffering sucks.
I am not aware of a better answer."

Thanks for your honesty. It does indeed suck, and I can't see how anyone can reconcile the idea of a God that allows animals to suffer, and yet is loving and merciful at the same time.

James Brown

Thanks for your honesty. It does indeed suck, and I can't see how anyone can reconcile the idea of a God that allows animals to suffer, and yet is loving and merciful at the same time.

I cant do that, the above.

I don't see him as being merciful in the present moment, if at all.

Theists, why does God allow suffering..

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