Religion does stand between us. He's demonstrated his faith and sacrificed our relationship - a close one, I might add - for his god.
Cognitive Dissonance for Fundamenatlists
by leavingwt 128 Replies latest jw friends
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mythreesons
SBC - my brother did the same. We were close too.
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EntirelyPossible
Um, no he did not. But if you can show me one place where he set someone to be killed for breaking the law, then you might be onto something.
Um, yeah. “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished”
Heaven and earth haven't disappeared yet. Law, according to Jesus, is still in effect. Just because he specifically didn't kill anyone (only threatened to and said he would on a grand scale) doesn't give him a get out of jail free card.
It might be interesting if it were true. But it is not. I follow Him and the example He left.
"Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? 4 For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother’[a] and ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.’[b] 5 But you say that if anyone declares that what might have been used to help their father or mother is ‘devoted to God,’ 6 they are not to ‘honor their father or mother’ with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. 7 You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you"
Looks like Jesus was up for some killing his own self. Great example, Tec ;)
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tec
Religion does stand between us. He's demonstrated his faith and sacrificed our relationship - a close one, I might add - for his god.
But you don't. He can come to you at any time.
What is sad is that he tries to do good (as you said) for pure reasons, but that people have taught him falsely what God wants of him.
It is sad.
EP - Nothing you stated showed me the eample of him doing this; though I did show you the eample of him showing mercy over punishment as the law required. Why not look at the e x ample as much as at the written word? We can misunderstand words, but in many cases, actions speak louder than words.
only threatened to and said he would on a grand scale
Which part for instance, so that I understand where you're coming from?
Peace,
Tammy
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whereami
So, another valid question to ask to fundamentalists is, does morality exist without God?
You might want to check this out on the Science Channel; http://science.discovery.com/tv-schedules/special.html?paid=48.15727.133273.0.0
Are You Good Or Evil?
Ted Bundy, Charles Manson, David Berkowitz. Were they born bad? Do humans have an innate sense of morality? If so, where does it exist in the brain and how did it get there? Meet the scientists searching for a physical basis behind the moral instinct.
Just finished watching it, extreamly facinating.
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SweetBabyCheezits
What is sad is that he tries to do good (as you said) for pure reasons, but that people have
taught him falsely what God wants of him.
What difference does it make if a belief is "false" if faith and love are the most important things?
"Faith? Check."
"Love? Check."
"Great! The rest will take care of itself."
Too bad truth takes a back seat to faith and love.
I don't know a single scripture that holds intelligence or critical thinking in high esteem; whereas uncritical acceptance of "god's word" - that's where the blessings come from, right? That's convenient. From my side, it's no wonder the patriarchs and religious leaders made faith out to be the quality their gods value more than any other. What better way to control a group?
How can you challenge the views of someone who gives priority to faith over reason and evidence?
That's why I see this religious variety of faith as a curse - at least in a more civilized time and culture - and not a blessing. Once a concept is accepted in faith, it becomes particularly difficult to disbelieve it, no matter how much logic, reason, and evidence disagree. Why do so many "good people" like my brother around the world believe so many contradicting things... so sincerely? I'd venture because most were indoctrinated with a religious kernel and then they seal over it with faith. Thereafter, evidence and logic will have a very difficult time penetrating the "large shield of faith."
One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. it is simply too painful to acknowledge -- even to ourselves -- that we've been so credulous. (So the old bamboozles tend to persist as the new bamboozles rise.) - Carl Sagan
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tec
Who cares about a view being "false" if faith and love are the most important things?
When that view conflicts with love. And when you are looking at a group of men to tell you what love is, what God believes love is, instead of at Christ, his image, then... well, you have seen the sad result. That is one major reason why so many 'good people' believe so many conflicting things - because they are looking at someone else to see God, and not at Christ.
I don't know a single scripture that holds intelligence or critical thinking in high esteem; whereas uncritical acceptance of "god's word" - that's where the blessings come from, right?
"Why don't you judge for yourselves what is right?" Luke 12:57
Peace,
Tammy
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SweetBabyCheezits
When that view conflicts with love.
So we use a largely relative emotion to determine truth?
How can he sense that his views conflict with love when he believes shunning to be an expression of love to help me return to his god?
I could very well say that I have to reject the entire Bible since it conflicts with love all over the place.
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tec
So we use a largely relative emotion to determine truth?
Look to Christ, rather than men, to understand love. Men can justify any action and deem that it comes from love. (Sometimes it truly does, and if so, then that love can "cover over a multitude of sins". But that isn't for us to judge.)
But as for ourselves, it does come down to 'judging for ourselves' instead of following religion, tradition, or other men.
I could very well say that I have to reject the entire Bible since it conflicts with love all over the place.
You do reject the bible, lol.
The bible isn't one book though. I reject the parts (or the understanding of those parts) that conflict with Christ and/or love.
Peace,
Tammy
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SweetBabyCheezits
SBC: I could very well say that I have to reject the entire Bible since it conflicts with love all over the place.
TEC: You do reject the bible, lol.
Of course, but that's only a small part of the reason. :-) I'm trying to assess things using your standard of scrutiny here, namely love.
TEC: I reject the parts (or the understanding of those parts) that conflict with Christ and/or love.
So why not give Jehovah's Witnesses the same benefit? Or Mormons? Or Islam and the Quran? Just reject the parts that conflict with love.
TEC: Look to Christ, rather than men, to understand love. Men can justify any action and deem that it comes from love.
...hence the books that make up the Bible, including the gospel. The circle never ends.