by teejay 38 Replies latest jw experiences
joy2bfree & think41self,
Thanks so much for the help with the faces. I'll probably be using sarcasm often. Something not becoming to sisters a the hall. Thanks again!
If the head be corrupt, so also must be the members — The Two Babylons Alexander Hislop
But when we send troops in, why should we have to adjust to their standards and social schisms?
Exactly. The only way it think we should impose things of this nature on our officials is when they play an active role that requies them to meet up with the general public on an everyday basis. I don't think our troops are taking on a role of that particular nature over there. therfore, our women serving n a military capacity should not be required to take up any local customs.
ONE....
bigboi
Greetings All,
Well, there were some contradictions here to think about.
The military men were told NOT to wear Muslim garb off base.That jeans and a sport shirt were appropriate.
The Saudi govt does NOT require non-Muslim women to wear the abaya.
The State Dept. officials(female) do not wear the abaya on official business.They are told not to because they represent the American Govt.
So why should they have tried to force this on female deployed military personnel? Do 'all' military personnel NOT represent the American Govt?
McSally,besides the obvious military double standard also objected on religious reasons. As this is a requirement of islamic law. She is a Christian.
Just some thoughts,T
Todays Affirmation:
The complete lack of evidence is the surest sign that the conspiracy is working.
The State Dept. officials(female) do not wear the abaya on official business.They are told not to because they represent the American Govt
was stated above
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and this is interesting in that Madlin Albright didn't wear that outfit on any of her visit
the Amercian public is a funny type of group
if Albright had to wear this outfit most would have been insulted that here the most powerful woman for the USA is reduced to being in SUBJECTION TO HER MALE COUNTERPARTS
let's play devils advocate- you got some nice tough Marines from Paris Island and they are told that they have to wear a Turban each time they go out in public
those good ole boys would be burning that head pc on the ends of thier M-16
so the bottom line is this Women are not viewed as equal to men and more than likely it will be along time before they will esp as long as the "GOD" of most of the major religions keep saying that they are not
"Female military personnel in Saudi Arabia must wear black head-to-foot robes called abayas and ride in the back seat when off base. They can leave base only if they are accompanied by a man.
Lt. Col. Martha McSally says the policy is unconstitutional. It discriminates against women and violates their religious freedom, forcing them to wear clothing and follow customs mandated by a religion other than their own, her lawsuit says."
What Albright wears and does not wear is irrelevant.
What is and is not required of servicemen is irrelvent.
Whether it violates anyone's religious freedom or is unconstitutional (both ludicrous assertions) is irrelevant.
Whether or not teejay should wear the damn thing (Imbue) is comical but equally irrelevant.
What *IS* relevant is that we are in a host country, their home as it were, and should respect local custom, especially one as harmless as this one.
Btw, military forces on the ground in Afghanistan have no problem donning traditional Afghani garb, especially when their safety would be put in danger to do otherwise—one of the reasons for the policy in Saudi Arabia. As far as we know, not a single serviceman in Afghanistan has threatened a lawsuit as a result of that policy.
This whole fiasco reminds me of Blacks who take offense when someone calls them "Negro" or "Colored." Give me a physical break! Let's worry about the big stuff and let some of this little, insignificant stuff GO! My god....
It was a military presence Teejay, not a diplomatic one. A big difference considering the issue at hand. And hey, I don't consider it a big deal...just commenting on the discussion.
think41self
If I'd known I was going to live this long, I'd have taken better care of myself!
Teejay,
You said that McSally, was an Airforce Lt.Col., as such she likely has had to command male subordinates, some of which may bristle at having a woman as a superior officer. I understand why she would find it impossible to don an outfit which would subordinate HER in front of all males! She has her rank, and it needs to be respected.
IW
Saudi society like JW is very similar....that is how it is.....
but under the circumstances personal rights in that dirty society is
a pretty silly way to scream about the situation ..if you don't like it get out
Whether or not teejay should wear the damn thing (Imbue) is comical but equally irrelevant.
It's meant to be comical, but not irrelevant. It was humiliating for this Officer of the US Armed Forces (etc) to be forced to wear something that diminishes the her dignity and stature.
I think it would diminish anyone's dignity to have to be covered up and escorted around by men of lesser rank. This makes her lawsuit valid.
If the head be corrupt, so also must be the members — The Two Babylons Alexander Hislop
It was a military presence Teejay, not a diplomatic one. A big difference considering the issue at hand.
think41, you're starting to stress me!
So, are you saying that the soldiers in Afghanistan are a "military presence" but the ones in Saudi Arabia merely serve a diplomatic function? Even if you are, according to Saudi custom and America's policy of following whatever the local custom dictates, would it make any difference?
-------------------------------------------------
She has her rank, and it needs to be respected.
IW,
If/when she wears the abaya, would she lose her rank? If she gave an order – from underneath her abaya – to a male subordinate who happened to be in the front seat, would he be duty-bound to follow it? Or, would he be free to disrespect her simply because of what she had on over her uniform?
What, of genuine consequence, would change by her wearing the abaya?
Otherwise, you bring up a very good point when you said
she likely has had to command male subordinates, some of which may bristle at having a woman as a superior officerSuppose you're right. Suppose there are male subordinates who actually *do* bristle at having to obey the orders of a female superior. (Such animals have been known to exist!) Should their emotional reaction to having a female superior really matter? If so, should they file a lawsuit? And, if so, should said lawsuit be given an ounce of consideration?
I say, "No" to each question.
"Follow your orders" is the byword for members of the military. But oh! That's my point!! What's good for the men should be, uh... er... oh, nevermind....
