http://psychclassics.yorku.ca/Skinner/Pigeon/
This is a paper that explains why seeing the alarm clock at 6:07 more than once and taking significance, means you are a pigeon.
IS GOD REAL? HOW DO YOU KNOW?
by still thinking 778 Replies latest jw friends
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still thinking
Interesting read...snare...I've just had a quick skim but am going back to read it...heres the link if anyone else wants it...
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still thinking
After reading that in full snare...I can only conclude that I was a pigeon in my previous life...LOL...I have had some stong pigeon traits myself. But I don't want to dance for my spiritual food anymore.
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snare&racket
For people that talk a lot but read a little, the paper is about the evolution of superstition, as seen in pigeons. Humans work efficiently by seeing patterns. It saves time and energy. This can go wrong when we misintepret a repeated event and assign it meaning. It is in reality an ignorance of probability. "What are the chances that after praying to god a tax return came through the door!" ...yeah what are the chances !!!! and why do we only notice things after they have significance.... i.e. how often does one pray with no linked event after it..... hmmm...
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snare&racket
Maybe some people on this thread have an access to god or say a magic word in their prayers, or maybe wears the right colour underwear for god to hear them....
but for me, and I did pray a lot, earnestly and from the heart.... but to no avail and anything I assigned to reply to prayer can not be dismissed by simple or normal life.
Infact, now I have took control of my life i.e. I dont pray for things, I make effort and act towards them, well now I get them and things happen ! It really is that easy. After being honest with myself about how little prayer seemed to be answered, about 5 % ....... and these answers were if anything down to Satans world i.e. finances etc than anything, I next went on to consider... why would god answer my prayer on personal concerns that are hardly life or death when people are begging god to live somewhere in the world....and dying. It just doesnt add up. I suddely realised how uncomfortable I felt in thinking god as listening to me and my petty bullcrap, whilst he ignored cancer, natural disaster, injustice, starvation...... but yeah sure... he made sure I got a nice flat.... vomit !
Snare
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Vanderhoven7
Still Thinking: The thread you were looking for was
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still thinking
Thank you Vanderhoven7!!!!....I just read it....
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still thinking
Hi Vanderhoven....I have just finished watching your clip (finally found a quiet time to actually focus on what you are saying). And i have some questions.
The issue I am trying to clear up in my mind is whether I believe in a God or spiritual being, because I was taught this as a child. In a way, what we learn as children becomes a part of who we are...I am trying to seperate learned behaviour and belief from reality. I am well aware, through lots of hard work, that a lot of what I believed and thought was not mine. And have let go of many thoughts and behaviours over the last few years. This has benefited me immensely. And I have found a truer self by releasing what didnt belong to me.
I notice that you say you were read the bible as a child and your father is a minister. If this wasn't the case, do you think you would fall back on this belief? Or is it possible that you would look towards yourself as being the source of your 'messages'?
Another point you made was that 'everything from God is by faith'....but what are your thoughts on people who have never heard or learnt of your god? how are they to build faith?
Also, you say you were 'filled with spirit' and 'heard god speak'...were these actual words you heard? or is it possible it could be your subconsciece giving you information based on what you have already read? I noticed that you asked a question and were answered with three words...but they reflected what you had read in the bible. Is it possible that you are just recalling information already absorbed? A kind of problem solving based on experience?
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mrquik
I know many here, being former Witnesses are loath to consider anything taught by the WT as being true. But I believe there is truth in all religions. It is a matter of degree. The Witnesses were never "inspired" by God, just good Bible students as well they should have been. That being said, I try not to "throw out the baby with the bathwater." Their interpretation of this period of time as one where God has not intervened with the affairs of man answer many of the debates in previous posts. As many have noted the inequity of God intervening haphazardly leaves the question of his love or righteousness in serious doubt. Rather the larger question of universal soveriegnty needs to be addressed once & never again. As for those who suffer and die needlessly, they have already paid the price & get a "get out of jail free card". Everyone comes back. (Unless you piss off God directly) So, I believe, will all of us.
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still thinking
How do you KNOW all that mrquik? How do you decide what is true about God and what isn't? How do you KNOW he is real?
In Vanderhovens clip he is addressing how he knows...and it seems to be based on faith and maybe personal experience of hearing god speak to him. Is this the case for you? What has been your personal experience that convinced you that God is real?