IS GOD REAL? HOW DO YOU KNOW?

by still thinking 778 Replies latest jw friends

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  still thinking

  Nambo....you are quite refreshing I must say...although I don't particularly agree with whay you say...I like the way you say it.

  Your example of God allowing christians to be killed along side starving african children dying does not make me want to know your god I'm afraid. To you that seems to mean he is unbiased...to me it shows if he exists, he is uncaring.

  You mention you felt closer to god in the spritiually strong congreation as opposed to the other one...where you didn't feel god was there at all....why would that have anything to do with God being near you? Is it possible you were just hyped up by the positiveness of the 'strong congregation'? I know when I really believed and felt close to god it was when I was either hyped or pushed myself...should that be how a relaionship with god works? I mean, if you look at the religions that do the most evangelizing, tongues, all that garb...they feel the spirit like you wouldn't believe...which by the way I don't.

  I am not offended in any way by your post..in fact I found it quite charming.
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  Wizard of Oz

  @still....Kind of an abuse of power isn't it? Taking advantage of others weeknessess for your own ends. ......

  Perhaps He just wanted his Son home......it was time, predetermined. Parents I know would go to any lengths as well to achieve family unity. For sure, Judas had a conflict of conscience, he thought he could salve it by being coerced into taking money and dug himself a deeper hole. Then he cleared it completely through throwing it away, where it was picked up and used to do a good thing. Consider the prostitute who asked for forgiveness, how relieved she must have been when told to go forth and sin no more. It would have been a crisis of conscience that caused her to ask....because of the judgement put upon her within the community, when more than likely members of that same community were quite prepared to use her out of lust. Being aware of her true person, and knowing that that was her only option, a thing she had never questioned in her own mind until dispersions were put upon her. How relieved She Must have been!! Living your life with a clear consciense is all that matters. My Consciense is krystal klear.......I have no regrets whatsoever.

  another point of view for consideration

  A Heart-Felt Plea for Understanding...........PERHAPS

  Your Religious Calling was written on Plates of Stone by an Angry God

  Our Religion was Establish by the Traditions of our Ancestors

  The dreams & Premonitions of our ELDERS

  That are Given to them in The Silent Hours of the Night

  BY The Great Spirit and Learned Beings

  It is Written in the Hearts of our People THUS

  We do not Require Churches-which would only lead us to argue over God

  we do not wish this

  Earthly Things may be argued about with Men- we never argue over GOD

  And the THOUGHT that White men should Rule over Nature

  following his liking

  Was never understood by the red man

  Our Belief is that The Great Spirit has CREATED All Things, not just man

  but all Aminals all Plants all Rocks....all on EARTH and amongst the Stars

  WITH TRUE SOUL

  for us all Life is Holy

  you do not Understand when we address the Sun Moon and Winds

  you have JUDGED us without Understanding

  only because our Prayers are different

  We Are Able to LIVE in Harmony with all of Nature

  Nature Is Within Us and WE Are All Part of NATURE

  CHIEF WHITE CLOUD

  TRIBE:UNCERTAIN

  Don't you just love the way certain cultures debilitate, malign & destroy others,how the rich tapestry of life on this planet has virtually been eliminated by bigoted zealots of Judaism through the love of money, of Christianity by enslavement to ideals, of Islam through self gloification. Though I have no regrets, I am ashamed to be a member of this human race. UNBELIEVEABLE
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  still thinking

  Well, thats certainly a nice place to begin isn't it? If you were born into that belief system...at least it isn't a religion that consumes itself and loads people with guilt. Although, if you had a bad dream...you could put that down to a bad omen or something I suppose..Did they believe in bad omens? Or was there nothing like that for them?

  Did they have a yang to their yin?
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  Nambo

  Still Thinking,

  I have felt like you about God when I was falling away, but when I think about it, what other way is there?

  What if he did save those Russian Christains but not starving Africans? He would be then accussed of being a racist God, or people would be flocking to become Chrisstians for the wrong reasons, like rice Christians.

  Or how about he stops all suffering, runs around after the Devil cleaning up his mess so people can say, "the Devil was right you know, we can do what ever we like and look, nobodies suffering!"

  When Jesus takes over, it is then that suffering ends.

  As for your question of did I feel the Spirit more when in the stronger and more encouraging congregation?

  To be honest, I felt it more when I was home on my own, especially if I had been out on the field service on my own which I often did of an evening after I finished work.

  When I went to the new congregation, surely if it was an internal feeling I should have been hyped up that I gad sold my house, moved 200 miles, totally on my own yet at the mercy of God in order to as I fantisised, further carry out his will?, yet it was as if God no longer knew where I was, totally nothing.

  One of the sisters of this new cong, when accompanying me to my old cong fro a visit, remarked that it felt as Spiritual as Bethel school in comparison, I really think something was going on up there that stopped the Holy Spirit and that it wasnt just me that noticed it.

  Actually, I jjust remembered a time up there where I gid experience the Spirit quite strongly, I was waiting at the railway station, not praying or talking or even thinking about God, when I got off the train and got to my parked car, I found it had been broken into and my suit and quite a lot of my clothing had been stolen. That Spirit did comfort me, but no, you are right, it shouldnt really be like that that we have to constantly aproach a loving God to get any acknowledgement back from him, so I wonder if there is a reason we are unaware of?, maybe the Devil demands God not steal his "subjects", unless they go willingly of their own validition with no prompting from God at all?
• 

  Wizard of Oz

  @still re: bad omens in dreams. To the extent of my limited knowledge on the subject, No. Their dreaming state was a conduit to the Great Spirit & Learned Beings. Good&Bad were not an applied thing in this case, it is an acceptance of faith. Sitting Bull, a Great Chief of the Souix received by revelation in a Dream that the Souix would have victory over The Long Knives @ Little Big Horn. A new condition was placed upon the people for this battle: do not take the spoils of war, for if you do it will not go well for the people. It will bring end times to the Nations{Indian) Made aware of the condition but fuelled by blood lust the warriors could not help themselves or rather that is exactly what they did. For Ingrained Tradition is Hard to give up, in all of us.!! And the slow decline of the Indian Nations be came a Torrent with the ushering in of The Great White Society. What a Crying Shame

  Omens as far as I know would come from nature, the things around them; like in the movie "Dancing with Wolves" A Dr Dolittle Thing: one day I saw a long stem dancing without breeze, slowy approaching to discover the cause, I received a warning to stop through a sound given by brother/sister Kookaburra. I was so engrossed by the movement, I was not even aware they were there only a few feet away. Finding optical clarity I saw a Grasshopper was the cause, ol' mate swooped down collected his prize and we had LOL and communed for a bit i.e. Looked Into each Others Eyes, for as it is written "The eyes are the windows to the soul" What a truly amazing uplifting experience that woz. Kooky thought I was going for lunch and it was his first.{L&L&LOL} Absolute JOY.

  NATIVE AMERICAN LAW

  THE EARTH IS OUR MOTHER

  CARE FOR HER

  HONOUR ALL YOUR RELATIONS

  OPEN YOUR HEART &SOUL TO THE

  GREAT SPIRIT

  ALL LIFE IS SACRED:TREAT ALL BEINGS WITH RESPECT

  TAKE FROM THE EARTH:WHAT IS NEEDED

  NOTHING MORE

  DO WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE FOR THE GOOD OF ALL

  GIVE CONSTANT THANKS TO THE GREAT SPIRIT

  FOR EACH NEW DAY

  SPEAK THE TRUTH:BUT ONLY OF THE GOOD IN OTHERS

  FOLLOW THE RYTHMS OF NATURE

  ENJOY LIFES JOURNEY:THOUGH LEAVE NO TRACKS

  Your YANG M'Lady??

  Modern Western Democratic Society sprung from Europe swept along by Middle Eastern beliefs received through conquest. The govt's of these countries alledge they are there to do the will of the people,put there by the will of god by consciense vote. With great cermony they open parliament with The Lord's Prayer,seeking guidance to carry out God's Will. In effect govern by God's Law: "Do unto others as you would have them do to you; this is the beginning and the end of the law" How the #%$@ do they get screw 'em over for all their worth, morally, financially, spiritually; out of that. I don't understand how Jdubs can be so right on so many levels and so wrong on so many more. Go Figure!!
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  mP

  nambo

  the problem is god didnt do much for the russian xians or africans, both are or were dying. god could have stopped both situations but he did nothing. im sure you would agree if anyone deseerves priority you would be far behind either of the two groups. your story is sad but it is hardly a life or death matter. ppl have been asking for jehovahs help for thousands of years, the bible itself has many stories where he always lets the jews be attacked. except for the exodus story he never helped them once. jehovah was a liability in the ot and nt. all those sacrofices, gold etc and he never helped. that was the worst insurance deal in history. if the same happened today that insurance company would be in court or have its buildings burnt down and ceos lynched.
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  still thinking

  What if he did save those Russian Christains but not starving Africans? He would be then accussed of being a racist God, or people would be flocking to become Chrisstians for the wrong reasons, like rice Christians.

  Nambo...this is full of ????? moments for me.

  1/ why would god not save both? Why does there even have to be a choice of one or the other or none at all?

  2/ why would everyone flocking to become christians because they observed gods grace be a bad thing? How can there really be a wrong reason to want to follow god if he exists. I mean truy follow...not religion follow. Surely if people witnessed these things for themselves they could cut through the crap and make the choice based on Gods kindness.

  Or how about he stops all suffering, runs around after the Devil cleaning up his mess so people can say, "the Devil was right you know, we can do what ever we like and look, nobodies suffering!"

  I don't know how to phrase what I feel about this...how about he just gets rid of the devil instead of him letting him run a muck on the earth? Then, if it is the devil that is misleading people we would have a real chance to make choices without a devil (who seems to have more influence on us that god) trying to get us to do the wrong thing. Why do we really have to be treated like that?

  One of the sisters of this new cong, when accompanying me to my old cong fro a visit, remarked that it felt as Spiritual as Bethel school in comparison,

  Doesn't that bother you? It concerns me that my most spiritual feelings were when I was heavily involved with the JW's.
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  still thinking

  Wizzz....Nice story about the Kookaburra...animals interact with us all the time...if we take notice.

  If we all followed Native amerincan law as you have it there....I think the world would be a better place.
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  tec

  Love the Native American Law, Woz.

  Peace,

  tammy
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  snare&racket

  God can't talk to me, but then I have a clock with hands... If only I followed a digital deity, he could alarm me out of my snooze.... Buzzz......