Vanderhoven --- great video.
IS GOD REAL? HOW DO YOU KNOW?
by still thinking 778 Replies latest jw friends
-
-
JonathanH
A philosophical or theological question to throw to the audience.
So a great many here believe in revelation over the bible itself. The bible isn't God's word, it's man's interpretation of god's word. BUT none the less, it's true about sin and Jesus and his ressurection, ect. That is to say, while the bible isn't the "truth" persay, Christianity is the truth. Not necessarily the organized religion aspect of it (though some say it is) but the whole deal with accepting Jesus, and Jesus loves you, and Jesus enters into your heart, and it's all about a relationship with Jesus, and evidence isn't necessary, and it's actually naive to ask for evidence because Jesus reveals himself to those that will recieve him. It's about personal revelation, rather than reasoning with an individual or providing evidence of the truth of christianity. And that the religions of history have spent most of their time preaching things that aren't really necessarily true or accurate, and were often politically and culturally motivated and frequently completely misrepresented Jesus and his message. This seems to be a common theme among alot of christians here. This belief in the personal jesus found in one's own revelation, over the religious jesus taught from the pulpit.
So here is the question. Why have we never found, nor ever find, independent groups who have had revelations of Jesus without first having been culturally exposed to christianity? If it isn't about individuals being convinced by evidence or reason, but by Jesus communicating with the individual, why is it that christianity is only spread through missionary work or by force, and never just spontaneously appearing in remote parts of the world? Why didn't we ever go to some remote area of Papua New Guinea and find remote tribes that had already known Jesus because they had had a relationship with him for centuries, rather than dispirate tribal religions based on animal deities and the like? Why is it this revelation only spreads through culture and is geographically predictable? In India they had Hindu revelations devoid of christ, in China they had their own communion with spirits and the dead but never a Semitic diety telling them of original sin brought about by a serpent in eden. Why didn't aboriginal tribes have the revelation of Christ's love on their own?
Essentially why does the spread of christianity look exactly like one would expect a culturally motivated meme to spread and not like a divine revelation given to all of humanity? Why does christianity seem completely unremarkable to anybody that isn't already culturally indocrinated to find it remarkable? Why does mythic revelation that is built into the soul of man propogate only through false prophets and greedy pharisees travelling the world looking for new markets? Why did Jesus ignore China, the largest nation on the planet, for almost all of human history? Why did he only start to communicate with them once merchants and politically motivated missionaries started preaching false messages about him to the Chinese? Shouldn't this raise a flag or two in the mind of the believer?
-
Joey Jo-Jo
bart ehrman just released a new book about the historical jesus, very eye opening.
-
mP
jo_
erhman is dishonest in his book. he admits there are only three or four sentences most of which are probably frauds or at best fuzzy. he also admits the miracles, resurrection are lies or madeup. after all that he says the man still exists even though there is no proof. he admits the gospels are theology and hardly historical. so basically what proof is there left to believe ?
-
Andrew Sh
How do I know God is real?
I read all about Jesus. Ask yourself what did he do, and who was he? Once you know who Jesus was then you are on the way to being able to answer your own question.
-
Joey Jo-Jo
ehrman does not believe that jesus is the christ,
-
Caedes
How do I know God is real?
I read all about Jesus. Ask yourself what did he do, and who was he? Once you know who Jesus was then you are on the way to being able to answer your own question.
I read a book about a guy named James Bond, it was all about what he did and who he was. Does that mean M is god? Seriously, the bible is just a book written by men, there is nothing in the bible that convinces me that god is real. There is plenty that convinces me that your god character is a homicidal maniac unworthy of respect.
-
cantleave
Caedes - you haven't meditated enough on the loving qualities of god. You need to look into god's mind to understand the justification for rape, genocide, killing children with bears, flooding the earth and putting needless temptation before man, so that we can never make the grade and are deserving of death.
Your lack of faith, will result in you being damned, that is what you deserve.
-
-
Fernando
Hey JonathanH!
I liked your insightful summary of a believer's experience and perspective.
You ask a very valid and insightful question too.
I have heard of cases of direct revelation by Jesus in Muslim countries and am on the lookout for first hand accounts.
For me Mahatma Gandhi is a powerful cross cultural example of a Hindu who was at the same time a simple Jesus follower, admittedly and reportedly due to reading the NT daily. Apparently his powerful yet counterintuitive methods were from this source. The same for Nelson Mandela.