I honestly believe this whole annointed/non annointed idea was just a way to keep certain people in power. Negate 90% of your followers from moving up the ladder. I don't think they ever imagined it getting this far along. I plan on partaking on some non alcoholic wine and bread on that night, alone, and not be a spectical to others
Jehovahs Witnesses and the Memorial of Christs Death
by Greybeard 30 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Ding
john 6:53-58 has been causing me alot of problems. it pains me. when i read it i cant ignore jesus words. but i have no feeling or longing for a heavenly life and immortality.
my hope at this time is for the 'everlasting life' that jesus speaks of in john 6:53-58 - but on earth.
BroMac's comment assumes that the WTS' heavenly/earthly class system is biblical.
But read Revelation 21.
If the heavenly Jerusalem comes down out of heaven and God dwells with his people, is not the distinction between heaven and earth at that time abolished?
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designs
Greybeard- Ask any Rabbi or go to a good historical resource, one recommendation is: The Complete Book Of Jewish Knowledge by Ausebel, another is the Jewish Encyclopdea.
Something to consider- Jesus or Yeshua ben Yoseph derived the majority of his beliefs from the Pharisees' interpretation and progressive ideas. They considered it their duty to 'Build a fence around the Torah'. The reasons for the majority of Jewish people not accepting the Jesus of the Gospels as the Messiah are many and most of the issues are presented in the Gospels which show he was not inline with Jewish expectations and beliefs.
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Greybeard
Thanks for the tips designs
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Darth Rutherford
Greybeard, thank you for that article. I appreciate it very much.
The other day, I was trying to reason John 6 with a couple of Witness friends over dinner. I asked them if they want everlasting life. Of course, they said yes. I then explained that Jesus was speaking about just that: "everlasting life" - life in general regardless of whether it will be in heaven or on earth. We must eat his flesh and drink his blood in order to have that everlasting life. If we don't partake, we have no everlasting life.
However, they responded that this only applies to the anointed.
I then explained, if what they say is true, then Jesus words at John 17:3 must also only apply to the anointed, since he was speaking of "everlasting life" there as well. If what they say is true, then only the anointed must gain accurate knowledge; and for those not anointed, it must not be necessary.
They had no response.
It's not about whether one is going to heaven or not. Those are anxieties that the Witnesses have created for themselves. Jesus compared himself to the manna that was sent by God from heaven. Everyone ate of the manna; therefore, everyone must eat the bread of his flesh to live forever.
Now, let's say they are right, and I'm not supposed to partake; but, I do. If I do so with a clean conscience out of obedience to Jesus, then partaking may not credit me, but my obedience won't condemn me either. If I am not chosen to partake, then there's no amount of bread eaten that can change that; however, I trust that my Lord will mercifully understand that I was trying to follow his direction.
However, if I am supposed to partake, yet I do not; how will my Lord feel when I explain I did not obey his words because men told me it was wrong. Men told me that I could gain everlating life and not eat his flesh and drink his blood. I reckon my Lord will probably remind me that I should not have put my trust in nobles. (Ps. 146:3) There will be no excuse for not obeying his clear command at John 6.
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designs
'we must eat his flesh and drink his blood in order to have that everlasting life' this was one of the Red Flags for Jews listening to Yeshua ben Yoseph claiming to be the Messiah. The route to Gan Eden was quite different.
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Chalam
"There will be no excuse for not obeying his clear command at John 6."
Amen!
I read John 6:53-54 to two JWs at the door once.
John 6:53-54
New International Version (NIV)
53 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.
I asked them if they eat the break and drink the wine. They said "no".
I then asked them if they expected to have eternal life and to be raised up at the resurrection. They said "yes".
I pointed out that they were clearly at odds with the very words of Jesus.
They explained their belief that the bread and wine is for the "annointed" as per the WT teaching.
I remarked that clearly the teaching of the WT are a higher authority for them than the words of Jesus.
They said they were happy with the WT explainations and left.
There is one route back to the garden of Eden and it is via Jesus.
He is The way, The truth, THE life. No-one comes to the Father but by Him and His blood and body.
Blessings in Christ,
Stephen
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heathen
Of cousrse most J'hos believe they are the Great Crowd so the resurrection isn't an issue , they been saying they identified them since the 30's so they stopped eating and drinking believing they would never die and the kingdom would come in their lifetime of which most are now dead. I believe the ritual to be a death pact anyway and not the symbolic death of dying as to the world but a litteral martyring as jesus was .
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designs
The Akedah, sacrifice of Isaac, was Taken by Christians to a different conclusion than by Jews. Christians found the vicarious sacrifice of a human to be morally acceptable even just and honorable. This was repugnant and completely missing the point in Jewish thought. Abraham shows fidelity, humility, and submission to God to be enough. God shows in this tale that he would not allow human sacrifice to be offered to him as worship. The lesson of the Akedah as recounted in the Torah and later the Talmud is that God loves and forgives his children.
In Jewish morning prayers, the Shacharit, the Akedah is mentioned as the example of how God wants and does not want worship. Jewish hymms sing of this- Selichot "Season of Penitence - Days of Awe". At Rosh Hashanah the affirmation that faith and obediance is what God looks at is affirmed with the Shofar being blown and the song of Genesis 27 sung.
Christians, who justified killing non-believers because of the Cross, during the Middle Ages caused some believing Jews to draw a ghastly strength from Isaac's example and kill their children rather than let the Christians take them. Rabbis turned to the Torah to help their people during this time and reminded the Jewish population in Europe that God hates human sacrifice by recounting the story from Deuteronomy "no man may make his son or daughter pass through the fire".
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RayPublisher
@Darth Rutherford: Awesome point brother- great reasoning. The scriptures explain themselves, and only when the men of the WT or some other dogamatic group step in does it get cloudy...