Are religionists and atheists on the same team?

by Fernando 191 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Phizzy

  We have been here so many times before, Atheism is DISbelief in a God. Since when has something with DIS in front been the same as the word without it ?

  Belief and Disbelief are antonyms.

  Belief is trusting that something exists or is true. Such belief can be based on evidence, experience and also upon nothing. You can believe something with no proof whatsoever to back up that belief. that is your choice.

  While we are on the definition of words, belief in the latter sense, i.e based on nothing, what is the difference between that and Delusion ?
• 

  adamah

  Phizzy said-

  We have been here so many times before, Atheism is DISbelief in a God. Since when has something with DIS in front been the same as the word without it ?

  Belief and Disbelief are antonyms.

  It's arguing semantics, but 'disbelief' is an imprecise and narrow term, as it implies that someone once BELIEVED but no longer believes (the prefix 'dis-' implies that what was once associated has been cut off, eg 'disfellowshipped' implies that one WAS a baptized member, but was excommunicated; 'dismembered' implies a part of the body that once was attached is now removed). Problem is, some people are born and NEVER believed in Gods, but are they not atheists, too? Not according to your narrow definition, they aren't.

  (And your limited definition as atheist focusing on 'disbelief' likely reflects your bias as an ex-JW, where you once believed but now don't. It works for ex-JWs, but doesn't necessarily fit anyone BUT ex-believers.)

  Hence why describing the difference between 'hard atheists' and 'soft atheists' is generally more productive (take a look on the thread about musings on atheists).

  Belief is trusting that something exists or is true. Such belief can be based on evidence, experience and also upon nothing. You can believe something with no proof whatsoever to back up that belief. that is your choice. While we are on the definition of words, belief in the latter sense, i.e based on nothing, what is the difference between that and Delusion ?

  Exactly, but nevertheless, some beliefs ARE labelled as 'DELUSIONAL beliefs', which are ideas which someone accepts as true even IN SPITE of contradictory evidence. That's why Richard Dawkins labelled his book as "the God DELUSION", i.e. theists are BELIEVERS, but they have no evidence on which to justify their beliefs BUT faith (unseen evidence, a logical impossibility).

  Simply because someone accepts ideas into their brains as being truths doesn't automatically make the idea worthy of acceptance or true.

  Adam
• 

  cofty

  Belief or non-belief in god is not binary.

  Being rational means that your beliefs are in proportion - or ratio - to the available evidence.

  Believers tend to be people who can only cope with a black-and-white, binary world where everything can be put in a mental box labelled as true or false, right or wrong, god or devil.

  Dictionary definitions are more important to Mr Fool than trying to actually understand another person's viewpoint.

  Pretending that your beliefs are of no value simply because you can't prove them in a mathematical sense dooms you to mental paralysis.

  Reason and science work. They get the job done. Everything else is self-indulgent time wasting.
• 

  adamah

  Cofty said-

  Belief or non-belief in god is not binary. Being rational means that your beliefs are in proportion - or ratio - to the available evidence.

  Yup, and that's why I like the idea of theists and atheists alike stating their beliefs in terms that relate it to the available evidence, rather than claims to just "KNOW" or even as an "all/none" binary reductionist over-simplification. As you say, life rarely operates in a manner of "guaranteed sure bets", and the hallmark of a scammer is suggesting such certainties exist when they really don't.

  In a very real sense, the theist vs atheist question really boils down to those people who can tolerate and accept living in an uncertain World (atheists) vs those who can't (theists): the question is whether that 'safety net' that theists THINK is underneath them actually exists or not, or is only providing a placebo effect (at great cost to society's progression as a whole).

  Dictionary definitions are more important to Mr Fool than trying to actually understand another person's viewpoint.

  Well, he IDed an inconsistency in your claim, and that's a sign of trying to understand it.

  I think we have an obligation to be able to state our beliefs in a clear concise and understandable manner, esp if arguing how it makes more sense than the contradictory Bible, right?

  Adam
• 

  Mr Fool

  Actually I´m not interested in dictionaries. I don´t even have one. I have asked questions here, no claims that I know things, because I don´t.

  But I like you Mr Cofty. Your modest and humble attitude, full of wisdom, is a bless to this world. It really is.
• 

  cofty

  Thanks
• 

  Phizzy

  If you do not have a Dictionary Mr Fool, why make it look as though you definition of "Atheist" came from one ?

  I humbly suggest you get one. Unless we can agree on what words mean, we cannot have a discussion, and this is a Discussion Board.

  As to the Thread title, no,Atheists and Religionists can never be on the same team, they are more like two opposing teams in a Tug-of-War.
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  Mr Fool

  Phizzy, I found the definition here: http://atheistempire.com/atheism/atheism.php

  It´s possible that Atheism and Religionism can, as you write, be like two opposing teams, just like black and white, yin and yang etc. Separated but maybe connected anyway. My limited experience with people from both sides, they have a lot in common; both are confident in their point of view, both think they "know", both claim that they have right and others with diffrerent point of views are wrong etc etc. If my understanding is correct, arrogance and pride have these features too.....
• 

  cofty

  An atheist who has researched religion at great length, gained an appreciation of science and investigated the big questions for many years, has a lot of evidence for dismissing the supernatural claims.

  The theist has somethng they call "faith" which is euphemism for wishful thinking.

  Where is the similarity?
• 

  Seraphim23

  I agree with you Phizzy. I think in general terms hard-line atheists and religious fundamentalists are opposites of each other in many ways, with more open minded people whose brains have not fallen out in the middle ground.