One Lord - One Savior : Get Used To It
by Perry 106 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Andrew Sh
Doesn't look as if you need any help here Perry, but I'll just add a few penny worth:-
"And Thomas answered and said unto him, Ho Kurios mou kai ho Theos mou" - the Lord of me and the God of me - John 20:28. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen and yet have believed.
What had Thomas believed? Was he blaspheming? Obviously not, Jesus didn't rebuke him, but implied he was blessed for believing, and others would be more blessed if they believed even though they had not seen.
And without controversy great is the mystery of our religion: God was revealed in the flesh... received up into glory . 1 Timothy 3:16
That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow.... and every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Philippians 2:10,11 compared with Isaiah 45:22,23:-
Look unto me and be ye saved all the ends of the earth, for I am God and there is none else. I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow and every tongue shall swear.
Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, God. Matthew 19:17 (Meaning, if I am not God then I am not good either, but if I am good, then I am God also. It isn't appropriate to call me merely "good master": men are not good, including you yourself.) Compare this with John 10:11 "I am the good shepherd."!!!
"but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God" John 5:18. Equal in nature, though subservient in his role as The Son.
baptizing them in the name (NB not 'names' but 'name', SINGULAR) of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Matthew 28:19.
"Fear not, I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and was dead, and behold I am alive for evermore, Amen." Rev 1:17,18.
Compare with Isaiah 44:6: Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts: I am the first and the last, beside me there is no God.
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Andrew Sh
And how many times did "they pick up stones to stone him" for blasphemy, when he could have ripped his clothes and said they had misunderstood him and he wasn't claiming any such thing (as to be God)... but he did not deny it?? They had NOT misunderstood Him, they had understood him perfectly well.
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Band on the Run
I believe that the Hebrew scriptures were written for Jews, not Christians. Bart Ehrman states that Christianity used the Hebrew Scriptures to bolster Christianity's claims b/c Christian was new and, similar to New Age religions today, new religions gathered few converts. So this odd marriage between Christian Greek scriptures and the Hebrew scriptures was adopted to sell Christianity.
You are reading back to the Hebrew Scriptures from a Christian perspective. A Buddhist would come to a different conclusion. Jews would be very annoyed at the misappropriation. As others stated, you are approaching this from faith, not fact. I don't think faith is wrong but it should be recognized.
Shakespeare or Jesus said scriptures could be used by Satan. The Bible is so large and diverse that almost any principle can be proved by pulling select scriptures completely out of context.
I tend to merge the scriptures, too, b/c it is part of Western tradition. It is my culture, not a fact. I sort of compartmentalize the scriptures. Studying academic views and also church teachings. It can be difficult to separate them. Cecile B. DeMille and Franco Zefferelli have had a huge impact on our thoughts. We tend to collapse the gospels into one mish mash in our brains.
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Perry
Thanks Andrew. I learned something new from your post:
That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow.... and every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Philippians 2:10,11 compared with Isaiah 45:22,23
When a person really understands what happened, it is utterly fantastic:
Jehovah, who made his laws well known, and in large part was known by them and through them - used the occassion of the fall of man (and Satan) to display an up-to-that-point unknown and different facet of his personality: the riches of his mercy by dying in our place, substituting for us in death and absorbing our due punishment in himself. Utterly awesome!
He's da Man!
No pun intended.
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OnTheWayOut
Jehovah in the Old Testament and Jesus in the New Testament are one and the same.
Alright. Then I can lump Jesus in with rape approving and genocide encouraging. It makes more sense to know that Jesus is the same as Jehovah when I look at the lives of hundreds of thousands of innocent children who died in disasters such as the Indonesian tsunami. He approves the killing of those who don't know him regardless of the reason- being born in non-Christian society.
Thanks for clearing that up.
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Nambo
First Corinthians 15 v 23 - 28
Daniel 7 v 9 - 14
One thing the JWs did get right!
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Perry
You are reading back to the Hebrew Scriptures from a Christian perspective.
I don't think so. It's also known as detailed fulfilled prophecy, a work of God. Prophecy, by its very nature requires a comparison of writings from different time periods.
Isaiah 53 is pretty clear to most folks:
2For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
3He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
4Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
6All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
7He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
8He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
9And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
11He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shallmy righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
12Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
Jehovah also predicted he'd thirst, his hands and feet would be pierced and his garments stripped from him:
Psalm 22 - 14 I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.
15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death.
16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have enclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.
17 I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me.
18 They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.Jehovah again says he would be pierced:
Zechariah 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
John 19:34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.
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designs
'done no violence' 'neither was any deceit in his mouth'..well your Jesus strikes out then.
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NewChapter
This ad I see on the site looks actually interesting about Jesus:
Just In: Seth Grahame-Smith wrote Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter---I've been listening to it on audio book! Twisted mind---I love it. He mixes the historical with the mythological---very interesting.
NC