Christian Apologists - Please Watch This and Tell Us Why it is wrong?

by cantleave 834 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • sabastious
    sabastious

    You don't have a basis for those assertions because you have not proved God is a creation of the imagination of men. You need to follow your own rules. You may be able to prove that ancient sacred texts are not inerrant, but you won't be able to prove that nothing supernatural didn't happen to them. You will never be able to prove that what they wrote down was not their best effort at describing supernatural events. Until you can recreate their times and experiences you are going to have to settle with theoretical arguments which are not substantial enough to prove the non existence of God. Your base is made of straw, but still your solider on. Start from the beginning of the known universe if you want to actually study the idea of God. Once you do that when you get to the Bronze Age you can see what's what otherwise you are just going to working off of false data. Bad science.

    -Sab

  • sabastious
    sabastious
    You can't prove that we are not a product of broccoli, therefore, this theory is just as valid as the god theory.

    Hundreds of millions of people didn't die for their convictions about humanity being the product of broccoli. The idea of God is and was supported by the majority of mankind to their bitter ends. Again, bad science is bad. You don't take into consideration all important factors.

    -Sab

  • NewChapter
    NewChapter

    You are working off of NO data. I use the data available (and don't make it up) and you call that bad science? Bad science is using evidence? Interesting. The US is really in a bad way---we don't get science.

    NC

  • sabastious
    sabastious
    You are working off of NO data. I use the data available (and don't make it up) and you call that bad science? Bad science is using evidence? Interesting. The US is really in a bad way---we don't get science.

    Bad science is discounting large, yet inconvienent, peices of data and I am working off of data, the same data as you, that's a cheap shot, btw. Are you out of substantial arguments or something?

    -Sab

  • sabastious
    sabastious

    The class difference you have between believers and non believers makes your opinion pretty stale to me. You would assume I am working with NO data. That's just a slap in the face. Have fun with your endless debate.

    -Sab

  • NewChapter
    NewChapter

    Your base is made of straw, but still your solider on.

    that's a cheap shot,

    Oh I see. You can say whatever you like, discount all of the scientific evidence I work from. Now if I told you that bigfoot was there, you could not prove he was not there, but the obligation of proof falls on the person who claims it is.

    Share your data. Show it to me. Let me investigate it.

  • cantleave
    cantleave

    Sab - I love seeing the God of the Gaps in action. Your video is absolutely brilliant. It shows that science will always create as many questions as it answers. It certainly doesn't allow for a all seeing all powerful creator. It just tell us that we do not understand the relationship between relativity, quantum mechanics and the true nature of gravity.

    Let's go back to the point of the video in the opening post. It is an attack on the Judeo /Christian / Islamic god constructs. These belief systems state that "God is Love". The video points out that these gods are not really gods of "love" but of inaction. They have been created as all seeing so they must see the suffering and injustice, they have been created as all powerful, so they have the power to do correct the suffering and injustice in a just way. Yet they do nothing. The gods that have been constructed by these faiths have human attributes and see humans as special creation, yet they are happy to watch their favourite creation destroy itself.

    The God that is being criticised in the opening post is for sure, 100%, a creation of man. It is up to you prove that it is not. In the same way it is up to a Hindu to prove that his gods are real.

  • tec
    tec
    We are simply analyzing their creation. Asking it some questions.

    I don't think atheists do this (though I think athiests think they do this) But I think that many atheists take the worst of the worst, the most easily disproved things, and state that this is God. Because it is easier. Like going for the most ludicrous things to attack a concept. Anyone who does not believe those ludicrous things becomes not a 'real christian' but just one who is making things up that they want to believe.

    The question of suffering is perhaps the biggest question, of course, and valid. But I think it is also valid that this world is as it is because of our choices throughout the ages. We could have an entirely different world if we had focused on the world as one... rather than as nations and tribes and boundary lines. If we had focused on finding balance on this planet, feeding the people, caring for one another... instead of enslaving others, finding any reason to do it and to take what we want/need. Perhaps one day we will have that world... and that would be the world that God wants us to have. But we won't find that world by abolishing the notion of God. We will only have that world if we change within. Because most of those things are done in the name of country or king, or whatever... using religion as a tool to help accomplish those means. Without religion, another tool would have been found. Leaders would have found a way to paint people who have what they want as their enemies, so they could take what they want, still.

    Why does God not shout out for all to hear? Well, according to what is written, He has done so. (maybe not shout, but shown Himself) It changed what? People still hurt one another. One generation to the following generation, people forgot the lessons learned and the things taught, and did their own thing. Can't dismiss all of that if this IS the theists god being argued against by the atheists.

    This is god according to beleivers: He is all powerful, but will not help.

    Perhaps according to some. Not most. He does help. Perhaps just not in the way that the atheist says He should be helping, but He does help.

    He is all wise, but will not share the answers.

    He absolutely shares answers. One has to listen, and then hear those answers, and this is done with faith. He does not force Himself upon us.

    He provides, but children starve to death.

    He does provide. He has provided a planet capable of feeding everyone on it. Children starve to death because of the choices of humanity (overpopulation, greed, money spent on things other than getting food to starving children, etc).

    He heals, but people die of horrific diseases.

    Disease, sickness, injury, death... all afflictions of the flesh, of which we are more than just our flesh. We know, though, that some of those diseases, (and most injuries), are a consequence of man's decisions. Smoking; not eating right, overworking, not taking care of our bodies, power lines and carcinogens ignored, big companies covering things up, etc, etc.

    As for healing, like what Christ and the apostles did... no one was healed who did not have the faith to be healed. (or at least also the faith to do the healing) I do not mean some wishy-washy 'belief'. But faith - the knowing (no doubting) that one will be healed, or that one can heal.

    Peter walked on water because of his faith... until he doubted, and then began to sink.

    Peace,

    tammy

  • Finkelstein
    Finkelstein

    You don't have a basis for those assertions because you have not proved God is a creation of the imagination of men.

    Being a bit intellectually dishonest aren't we ?

    There is a mountain of factual evidence that god(s) were indeed just that, even toward the said great Yahweh.

    Gods therefore should be identified as being expressions of human imagination formulated from human ignorance.

    To be intellectually honest in are evaluation of how the universe came to be we must be in truthful acceptance of things that are yet

    to be completely understood.

  • sabastious
    sabastious
    It certainly doesn't allow for a all seeing all powerful creator.

    How do you call yourself a follower of science and say something like this? The singularity within a Black Hole allows for ANYTHING. All known laws of physics DO NOT APPLY and TIME STOPS within the center of a Black Hole. What intelligence lies within it could be anything, as in anything our minds can imagine. For you to say that the content in that video doesn't allow for an all seeing, all powerful creator is just dumbfounding to me. You must just lack an imagination.

    -Sab

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