Christian Apologists - Please Watch This and Tell Us Why it is wrong?

by cantleave 834 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  tec

  No it wasn't...it was a question designed to look like there were only two possibilities...listeners or non listeners.

  You may conclude whatever you like. Since I designed the question, I'm going to assert that I know what I meant by it... or I would not have stated my meaning.

  Now, IF there is a God who speaks to all and has laid out teachings for all to hear... then people kind of have to fall into 'listening' or not 'listening'. Most people (probably all people) would fall into a little bit of both categories to varying degrees.

  Peace,

  tammy
• 

  still thinking

  Of course it does not apply to everyone. Some people do listen...tec

  as opposed to

  IF there is a God who speaks to all and has laid out teachings for all to hear... then people kind of have to fall into 'listening' or not 'listening'. Most people (probably all people) would fall into a little bit of both categories to varying degrees.

  No....doesn't say the same thing...first quote is stated as a fact. Therefore making us listeners or non listeners.
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  tec

  Tammy if we're are arguing the same thing, than what is the point of wasting time worrying about what God wants or does not want if we're on our own anyways? Let's call a spade a spade, and agree that worrying about God is a waste.

  I'm not worrying about God.

  Well, that isn't entirely true. I do worry about disappointing Him...if I have hurt someone, or been selfish, or simply done something that I know He does not approve of. (which is usually always something that would or could cause someone else pain)

  As for this type of thread, I get involved because some use the e x istence of suffering to attempt to prove that God does not eist. Or attempt to say that belief in God is the cause of most of that suffering, and without it, most suffering would end. I disagree with all of this, and so I get involved in the discussion.

  In a word RELIGION and God.

  I totally hear what you are saying. But the word is actually RELIGION and man. (kay, that's two words, but I just copied you) If people of faith knew God, shown through the Image and Word He sent us (Christ)... they wouldn't be starting wars and intolerance and shedding blood in His name. Now some can see Him through love, and are known by Him because of the love and light within them as well. But unfortunately, man has a habit of looking to himself to see God... and then 'God' all of a sudden takes on all of man's ambitions and desires and fears and hatreds, etc.

  Peace,

  Tammy
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  tootired2care

  Well for Muslim extremists they believe God is sanctioning their actions (and they have the religious texts to prove it), as did the crusaders - so no let's stick to the words RELIGION and God. The worlds history gives ample concrete evidence that God is a worse communicator to all of earths peoples, than a Dell tech support call center in India at 1 AM EST. This evidence is sufficient to say that either God is waiting for a future event or that he isn't interested. It sounds like you don't believe the former.
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  still thinking

  IF there is a God who speaks to all and has laid out teachings for all to hear... then people kind of have to fall into 'listening' or not 'listening'. Most people (probably all people) would fall into a little bit of both categories to varying degrees.

  And here is another possibility...

  If there was a God....maybe he would make himself so clear that there wouldn't be two categories of people...maybe they would all hear. They don't 'kind of' have to fall into either of your options.
• 

  palmtree67

  Since I designed the question, I'm going to assert that I know what I meant by it... or I would not have stated my meaning.

  Please remember you said this.
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  tec

  If someone hears... it does not mean that they are listening (obeying). There is another possibility; though I think I mentioned it. Maybe not.

  Please remember you said this.

  Of course.

  Peace,

  tammy
• 

  Silent_Scream

  I will say, "waiting for God to fix it" is simply a JW thing, to sit back and do nothing, not a Christian thing. Jesus demonstrated that. He fixed ailments immediately and fed hungry, etc. He turned tables over when he saw wrongdoing. He never gave out WT articles and told people to wait. Real Christians learn from his example, without missing the point of the message they preach.

  I can argue many points because, its obvious JW theology is being attacked specifically to disprove God and his actions, while I don't agree with those points either way. But it won't matter.

  There are many points issued in the video that I can't give an answer. I wish I could. I have an understanding I wholeheartedly believe in, but I may be wrong. I find myself praying regularly, for God to show himself. To prove he is real. Let everyone see Him, let His name be sanctified! And I still wait... I have no new or unique insight nor answers.

  But then I think, lets say there is no God. Are all my questions answered? Does atheism or science provide answers on every aspect of life that spirituality doesn't? NO. It doesn't.

  In theism or atheism, no one has ALL the answers or insight. There are things many things science can't prove. So how is that much better?

  Many can say because science is backed by evidence. Who's evidence? Evidence of the research of a man/men who could be just as wrong an anyone else? Evidence that more time/knowledge can prove was wrong? I don't dismiss science, I take it all in and enjoy learning it to supplement my spirituality, not cancel it, because there serious holes in science being the end-all idea.

  Are there questions I can't answer about God/Bible? Yes, but as a mere human I know I will never understand everything.

  Are there questions about unbelief that atheists can't answer? Yes, also. And as mere humans, none of them will understand everything either.

  Whose right and whose wrong?
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  NewChapter

  But then I think, lets say there is no God. Are all my questions answered? Does atheism or science provide answers on every aspect of life that spirituality doesn't? NO. It doesn't.

  In theism or atheism, no one has ALL the answers or insight. There are things many things science can't prove. So how is that much better?

  So you may assume that if something does not have all the answers, it's not useful, and yet you also said that your spirituality does not have the answers either. This is not a horrible thing for science, because science is a process for finding answers. They ask questions, and then they actually set about finding the answers. Believers pray for answers, and well----then they wait. Perhaps they get a thought, and decide it is an answer. Or a phone call. Or find a dollar on the ground.

  Science will offer a hypothesis---a question with an answer---and then it will set about to try to prove the answer is wrong. I'm not sure how to connect the idea that science doesn't have all the answers, therefore this fact supports spirituality. It's fine if it works for you, but just because we don't have the answers, it does not strengthen the argument for a god. It is simply an admission that we don't have all the answers---but then we already knew that.

  I could use this reasoning and say since we don't have all the answers, Martians may be real. Not sure how one leads to the other, but if we don't have all the answers, unicorns could be real. It just doesn't fit for me. At least science has a method for searching out those answers.

  NC
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  Silent_Scream

  I have methods for finding my answers also. But my point is, it doesn't dismiss a God for me.

  Admittedly, I do agree there are things in the world I see and wonder why IS god allowing it? And it would seem to make sense to my thought process to say there is no God, but non belief in God (for me personally) leads me to more questions than answers. More voids in life than patches.

  So you may assume that if something does not have all the answers, it's not useful,NOT what I assume at ALL. In fact, my testimony to that is your next words...

  and yet you also said that your spirituality does not have the answers either. This is not a horrible thing for science, because science is a process for finding answers. They ask questions, and then they actually set about finding the answers. Believers pray for answers, and well----then they wait. NO I do not. Once again, your clumping JW mentality with all believers. I pray to understand, not for answers. If I did, I would pray to reveal the secret of not working out but developing a 6 pack.

  Perhaps they get a thought, and decide it is an answer. Or a phone call. Or find a dollar on the ground. These are illogical ways to find an answer. As a believer, I promise you that's not MY method. But everyone has their thing. Plus I'm broke. I think that last one is a reasonable request.

  Science will offer a hypothesis---a question with an answer---and then it will set about to try to prove the answer is wrong. Yet, not one atheist or person in the sciences can explain how life BEGAN. Current understanding of sciences holds something living cannot come from something nonliving, but people will still hold on the idea and hope that in the future it will be known. But as of NOW, there is NO evidence of such a thing being able to occur. If there is no creator, how can we prove the origin of life? How did the first living organism on earth come about? Did it "magically" happen twice (male and female) so that it could reproduce? I have still yet to be given a complete or at least half complete but logical answer. Evidence points to a Creator. But this is an instance where it's ok to have not have an answer. But for a believer, not having an answer, yet believing, is called ignorance.

  I'm not sure how to connect the idea that science doesn't have all the answers, therefore this fact supports spirituality. It's fine if it works for you, but just because we don't have the answers, it does not strengthen the argument for a god. Neither does my (or any Christian) not having ALL the answers strengthen the argument of their NOT being a God. We simply don't have an answer, the same way you don't about sciences. Ath that point it simply comes down to personal beliefs. Some have the same knowledge you have, and still reason their is a Creator is behind it all. So whats the difference?

  It is simply an admission that we don't have all the answers---but then we already knew that.Is not the point of this thread to make your point? Obviously atheists feel they have some knowledge/insight us believers don't have. So once again, whose to say whose definitely right and whose definitely wrong?

  I could use this reasoning and say since we don't have all the answers, Martians may be real. Not sure how one leads to the other, but if we don't have all the answers, unicorns could be real. It just doesn't fit for me. At least science has a method for searching out those answers.NewChapter, I have never seen you, talked to you, heard about you (the real you, not your screen name) and I'm not sure how you have directly impacted my life as of yet. So according to scientific theory, you don't exist. Is that reasonable? Maybe your a unicorn, or a martian?